Run 16A off standard plug socket - is it possible?

[DDTTAA]

Hello

I’m currently restoring a coffee machine which has a rating of 16A (3.7 kW / 230v) and I was wondering if it was possible to run off a standard plug socket. I've seen adaptors for a 16A to 13A plug, but the problem is that this may just keep blowing the fuse if and when it reaches max power. I don’t know if the machine will cycle to max power but I would imaging on start up it may do. I live in rented accommodation and therefore cannot install a dedicated circuit.

So what might my options be?

Thanks for the help.

Damien.

 

[ColJack]

what kind of coffee machine?

if you're restoring it, can you split it into 2 different supplies? ( ie one for just the boiler, and 1 for all the rest? )

you could swap a socket front for a 20A DP switch and hardwire it.. as long as you use 2.5 flex to it..

 

[Adam_151]

you could swap a socket front for a 20A DP switch and hardwire it.. as long as you use 2.5 flex to it..

Not and comply with BS7671 you couldn't (assuming a RFC)

 

[DDTTAA]

Hi Coljack

its an Elektra Sixties T3 commercial coffee machine. the entire electrics for the machine come out as one piece, (including the 2 control units which cost around £1000 a piece - so i really dont want to mess too much with them) however it may be possible to split the power at the main switch.


the power supply comes in here from the left and then go direct in to the main power switch (2nd pic). also in the 2nd pic are 3 earths.

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i would imagine the majority of the power gores to the element with the motor for the pump rated at 1.6A

 

[ColJack]

damn it, I deleted the bit that made that make sense...

I originally wrote that he could put a 16A MCB / fuse inside the coffee machine..

that would make it a fixed load of 16A max..

 

[ColJack]

with the red and white cabling I'm guessing not made in the UK then?
american by chance? they work on different voltage you know..

 

[DDTTAA]

Its an italian company, but made for the UK market i believe as their american versions are 110v rated. the wires connecting to the plug are standard brown/blue/yellow-green

 

[ColJack]

found your threads on "home barista"...

9L coffee maker, no wonder you're still up at this hour...
have you got that solenoid sorted yet?

do you have an electrical schematic for it..

your heating element looks to be a dual element.. it may be possible to use only one to boil with..
as said on the other site, 9L is a lot of water.. you'd need to be drinking some serious coffee to have to use both elements on that to keep it hot..

I have another suggestion but it would likely get me shot here...

EDIT:

from what I can see of it in the green liquid on the other site, your element is indeed a dual element..
the larger one loops back on itself.. use that one and leave the other one disconnected.. if you can remember which set of terminals correspond to it..
it will take longer to boil but will be only 2/3 the power requirements I think..

if you can get me the schematics I could show you how the second element could be wired to a seperate plug and used that way...

 

[DDTTAA]

Ha Ha, yes, thats my topic, just been posting a reply over there. yes, i sorted the solenoid, they sent the wrong part, but luckily the piston fitted into the old part.

unfortunatly i do not have an electrical schematic and i feel Elektra would be very reluctant to send me one as they wouldnt even send me a user manual.

the end terminals can be seen in this post here http://www.home-barista.com/espress...eed-some-advice-please-t10922-40.html#p128897

the bottom element loops over the top one and it is easy enough to just run one of them. as you say the machine wouldn't use anywhere close to max power unles i was constantly steaming. i was just worried about the initial warm up period. If using the larger of the 2 elements would be around 2/3 power then this would be more than enough

if you can remember which set of terminals correspond to it

i took >150 pictures when i took it apart, should be able to figure it out

EDIT - these may be helpful

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[ColJack]

View media item 12695
from what I've gleaned from the pictures on the other site, this should work..

the second plug would only power the second element when the first was on..
but the cable would still be live with the unit switched off at the switch on it..a notice to that effect would be a good idea..
"warning this unit operates on a dual supply, isolate both sources before removing cover" on the back..

means it would take up 2 sockets though...

you could always add a second switch at the back, an iluminated one, and run the second plug through that..

 

[ColJack]

see where it says "show my images" below the reply window, click there then click on the pictures to put clickable thumbnails into the post..

 

[DDTTAA]

wow, that was quick work. ill have to take a look at some of the basics to fully understand this - my knowledge extends to as far as replacing a light switch atm.

thanks for the advice on the thumbnails

 

[bernardgreen]

Two points come from fuzzy memory of an Italian expresso machine I worked on a long time ago.

Check the two elements are not 110 volt each and wired in series for the 230v UK market and in parallel for the 110v USA market.

Check the polarity of the Live and Neutral The red and white wires to the terminal block may be WHITE = LIVE and RED = NEUTRAL

 

[DDTTAA]

this is the wiring of the elements of an american machine

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[bernardgreen]

That photo, each wire strapped to two terminals, is parallel and if that is the USA wiring then the elements are each 110v.

If in the UK machine the red wire goes to just one terminal and the white white wire also goes to just one terminal and there is only one strap between the other two terminals then the elements are connected in series. They are still 110v elements but two in series will work on 230v

If the elements are in series then the relay switching one element onto a separate plug will not work.

EDIT

Just realised you have photos from more than one machine. ( Too early for me to be thinking clearly ) The photo with the 4 termina element appears to show the red wire connected to two terminals that are strapped together and the white wire also going to two terminals strapped together. That is a parallel connection and the suggestion to switch one element via a relay to another 13 amp supply is valid. But be sure to remove the straps.