Sash window replacement

[Dougalmcdougall]

Hi,
I have recently moved to a house that has 24 large timber sash windows (example being biggest window 2.8m x 2.6m in three sash’s) that are in various states of repair. Many painted shut, some frames cut to include vents, the odd half replacement, cracked glass etc etc. One option is totally refurb the other is totally replace. It’s in a London conservation area.

I have had various quotes already - from small refurb guys to large specialist new sash window places. All prices are huge, understandably. But the large reputable company have their windows/joinery manufactured in Lithiuania - so in fact they only install them and from internet research it seems most others do the same.

My question: does anyone know who the the factory is in Lithuania? I am struggling to find them on the internet. Given the volume and size of the windows I thought it might be worth speaking to the factory direct? Or does anyone have experience of having windows manufactured in Lithuania that they could pass on?

The figures I am being quoted in the UK are many 10s of thousands of £ and a 18 week schedule so hoping I could get a manufacturer interested to save money.

Any information would be appreciated

Thanks

 

[HERTS P&D]

Go to a local joinery shop and get them to quote, unless you already have?

But saying you have a house in London with 24 large sash windows, must be a big house.

Andy

 

[Notch7]

your problem is that there is a lot of skill and knowledge required to measure and specify replacement box sashes.

Installation is expensive and involved. Probably your windows are set behind the outside brickwork and internally are fitted with liners and architraves.

The result is that for you to get a finished job you need to use a company that supplies and fits.

Your only option to save money really is to get a local installer to price the install and specify sizes for you and you pay direct for the windows.

You could get a quote for the box sashes yourself by drawing up the windows and providing approx dimensions. You would need to know enough for the manufacturers sales department to price correctly.

suppliers such as:

George Barnsdale
glengary

bereco -although they probably only sell through dealers

Ventrolla etc will do refurbs although expect to pay 50% to 70% of cost of new.

have you had prices for weights only? -balance springs might save a bit of money

there are companies in denmark and norway that are very reasonalbe but dont think they do traditional UK box sashes

 

[Dougalmcdougall]

Yes I have had one place round but their reaction wasn’t good and it’s taking them ages to get back to me. One thing worries me is via my armchair research there are lots of horror stories about things going wrong and people spending a fortune to not get good work. BUT I am fully aware people only tend to shout loudly on the internet about problems.

Re house - I have been fortunate to renovate four places and traded up each time to get where I am and generally do most work myself. But replacing/returning that lot of windows is beyond me. I’ve spent enough time on ladders doing exactly that in the past.

I am also Northern so like to spend as little money as I can no matter what I live in...

 

[Notch7]

Yes I have had one place round but their reaction wasn’t good and it’s taking them ages to get back to me. One thing worries me is via my armchair research there are lots of horror stories about things going wrong and people spending a fortune to not get good work. BUT I am fully aware people only tend to shout loudly on the internet about problems.

Re house - I have been fortunate to renovate four places and traded up each time to get where I am and generally do most work myself. But replacing/returning that lot of windows is beyond me. I’ve spent enough time on ladders doing exactly that in the past.

I am also Northern so like to spend as little money as I can no matter what I live in...

That number of windows is going to be quite a lump, somewhere in the region of £60k Id guess

 

[Dougalmcdougall]

Yes the boxes are all set behind the brickwork and there are big liners and architraves inside. And you are right that the numbers I am getting back is 30k to refurb or 50k to replace. In my view I would prefer to spend more to get new than spend 30k refurbing and then put scaffold up every two years to decorate etc. New (in theory...) would get me 5-7 years before i need to do that. It’s a four story town house so scaffold is quiet a lot each time so I have to factor that in. BUT I obviously want to spend as little as possible.

For this sort of value I was thinking talking direct to the factory would be an option at least.

 

[Dougalmcdougall]

Another thought I had was to put an advert on a job board website and effectively employ a joiner for 3 or 4 months full time. No idea of salary required but I would hope for a third of a year 25k would go a long way (I may be way off the mark though) The double glazed units I can find online in calculator tools for not that much money, I have a garage for a workshop... 5-10k on tools and timber and at least I have a lots of tools as well as new windows at the end of it!! Know anyone??

 

[Gazman16]

Have you thought about and researched PVC sliders at all?
There are now many makes that are suitable for conservation areas and even listed buildings.

These are some of the higher end ones, All mechanically jointed with traditional hardware:
https://www.roseview.co.uk/sectors/planning-conservation/
You probably would have to argue with your local planning people a bit, Maybe get someone used to dealing with them to get the permission but I have gotten permission to fit even the basic ones in my local conservation areas.

No maintenance hassles, No warping/twisting/swelling/rotting/painting etc. And you would probably be locking at a fair bit cheaper.
Even the basic ones you can struggle to tell apart from real timber unless your within a meter or so. The high end ones are better than that.

If you do go with wood make sure you see them up close. Most modern timber windows I come across are just awful and look nothing like the originals.

 

[God]

I can do you a supply only quote.

 

[Dougalmcdougall]

Have you thought about and researched PVC sliders at all?
There are now many makes that are suitable for conservation areas and even listed buildings.

These are some of the higher end ones, All mechanically jointed with traditional hardware:
https://www.roseview.co.uk/sectors/planning-conservation/
You probably would have to argue with your local planning people a bit, Maybe get someone used to dealing with them to get the permission but I have gotten permission to fit even the basic ones in my local conservation areas.

No maintenance hassles, No warping/twisting/swelling/rotting/painting etc. And you would probably be locking at a fair bit cheaper.
Even the basic ones you can struggle to tell apart from real timber unless your within a meter or so. The high end ones are better than that.

If you do go with wood make sure you see them up close. Most modern timber windows I come across are just awful and look nothing like the originals.

Yes I have a quote for timber alternative (Bygone) and it’s 1k more than the most expensive full service all timber replacement... this is part of why I’m trying to get more knowledge and even speak to an actual manufacturer as given the huge sums I am being quoted some feel like people are taking the micky... but I don’t know. If the Bygone quote is massive on the assumption they give huge discounts is that what everyone in the window trade does? Again why on £50k I am trying to get to the bottom of the actual cost of making them.

 

[Dougalmcdougall]

I can do you a supply only quote.

This feels a little circular - looking at your website given the significant number of products you supply you don’t manufacture them I assume? Therefore it’s who manufactures them that I want to know. Lithuanian by any chance?

 

[Gazman16]

Yes I have a quote for timber alternative (Bygone) and it’s 1k more than the most expensive full service all timber replacement... this is part of why I’m trying to get more knowledge and even speak to an actual manufacturer as given the huge sums I am being quoted some feel like people are taking the micky... but I don’t know. If the Bygone quote is massive on the assumption they give huge discounts is that what everyone in the window trade does? Again why on £50k I am trying to get to the bottom of the actual cost of making them.

You may not be able to speak to many factory's direct as they will have deals set up with trade installer/retailers.
decent quality timber sash windows (timber thats going to last more than 5 years) I would expect with trade discounts are going to cost £1000-3000 each.
Basic PVC sliders £300 each
Woodgrain effect with mechanical joins (heritage or Ultimate range) £500-1000 each.

As I say thats trade prices so unless your planning to open a window company your probably going to have to pay a markup on that through someone

 

[endecotp]

various states of repair. Many painted shut, some frames cut to include vents, the odd half replacement, cracked glass etc etc.

Regarding the vents, you need to think a bit about building regs before closing them up or replacing them with new windows without vents.

In my limited experience, I’d be surprised if entirely replacing them all would be the right thing to do.

Try getting someone to refurb one of two of the worst ones and see what you think of the result.

Much of the refurb work is DIYable, though time-consuming if you’re inexperienced.

 

[opps]

A substantially cheaper option would be to have the existing sashes repaired (draft proofed, etc).

If you are in west London speak to John

https://thesashmaster.wordpress.com/

I have painted a number of his windows over the years.

Ironically, a repaired Victorian sash may last longer than a new softwood sash. I frequently come across rotten wood on 10 year old sash replacements. I think it might be a combination of the way the tress are grown, the wood dried and the use of water based paint in the factory.