Self assembly electrical items

[foresttowndiy]

Hello.
Strange question this one but someone may have an answer.
I bought a fancy bathroom mirror with led lights and a demister pad. When I got it I found the wiring inside wasn't complete, the led's have quick connect plugs but the demister pad wiring is rolled up and taped to the back of the pad.
Apparently I'm expected to do this myself, or get the qualified electrician who has to connect it to the mains to also complete the internal wiring!
I don't think electrical items come from manufacturers incomplete but seller on ebay insists the item is not unfinished and they are all sent out like this.
Any thoughts as there is no instructions to do so, only ones saying how to connect supply from mains which is obvious a purchaser would need to do.
Cheers.

 

[ericmark]

I bought a ceiling lamp and all the globes were separately packed and there are many more examples of some level of self assembly. The amount would depend on the market it was aimed for and until this year it would have required an electrician to power up the device in a bathroom so it could be seen as reasonable to require assembly by that electrician.

However today in England it would depend on where in the bathroom used as to if professional persons would need to be engaged to fit it.

So I would say it is not obvious a purchaser would need to assemble the device it is likely expected a device like this would be installed by a professional because of the UK restrictions on working on electrical items in a bathroom.

Hand held or free standing devices are required now to be fitted with a British plug but this is not a hand held or free standing and most bathrooms will not have the 3 meters between the shower or bath required to fit sockets so as with an oven or hob in the kitchen or an immersion heater it would require hard wiring.

This is a case of course where pictures would help but likely if you got it all wrong and some one is injured as a results the courts would need to decide as to who was at fault and it would be difficult to show it was wrong.

Personally I think the words kit, self assembly, flat pack or list of tools required should be included in the description. But I have also fitted many items where some level of commissioning is required. Even the humble wrist watch often does not today have instructions on how to set the time or change a battery.

 

[Lectrician]

Quite common to have two supplies to these mirrors.

You may want the lights on without the demister for example. They usually leave you two sets of wires to connect, usually, you just connect them both to the same single supply.

 

[flameport]

I don't think electrical items come from manufacturers incomplete but seller on ebay insists the item is not unfinished and they are all sent out like this.

They are probably right. Seen and fitted plenty of mirrors like that.
You can also buy the demister pads separately for installation to existing mirrors.

No different from 12V lighting where the lampholder and transformer are separate items, or things such as exterior lighting with a separate PIR, central heating controls, extractor fans with built in lights and plenty more.

 

[OwainDIYer]

I bought an electric fan from Argos. I expected to have to put the top onto the legs, but the motor/blades/grill front/grill back etc were all separate bits.

 

[foresttowndiy]

I bought an electric fan from Argos. I expected to have to put the top onto the legs, but the motor/blades/grill front/grill back etc were all separate bits.

Usually the ad for the item will say some assembly required, then its obvious and accepted. I guess you didn't have to connect the wires to the motor though?
Whilst I'm happy to just connect the pad myself, there are no instructions to say where the coiled wire goes, I 'think' I can work it out but if I get it wrong and the item goes 'pop' can I return it as faulty?
I think at very least there should be full and complete instructions included and a quote of 'some assembly required' on the sale page.
I'm being picky as the seller is changing their story and being picky!
Got a photo somewhere but I'm now in a rush to leave for work.

 

[OwainDIYer]

I bought an electric fan from Argos. I expected to have to put the top onto the legs, but the motor/blades/grill front/grill back etc were all separate bits.

Usually the ad for the item will say some assembly required, then its obvious and accepted. I guess you didn't have to connect the wires to the motor though?

That was about the only thing I didn't have to do.

 

[foresttowndiy]

Untitled

• foresttowndiy
• 23 Jun 2013
• 1

Photo of the mirror unit and rear of the glass.
Moulded plug to connect led's top right of back box and top left on glass.
A 'spare' choc block presumably is the connection point for the demist pad.
I was basically asking if it is expected for the purchaser of an item to be expected to complete the actual electrical assembly of the item without providing instructions. The seller says the ad states 'simple to install' and this shows I need to do some work on it!

 

[seasickstevie]

If you're really flummoxed by what is basically just a couple of pairs of connections, I really don't think you should be attempting electrical work in a bathroom.

Get a spark.

 

[ericmark]

From picture I can see there are some writing on the mirror but not what it says. Is this some form of instruction?

134.1 Erection
134.1.1 Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. Electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment.

There are two points with the regulation above. One refers to the skill of person fitting the device the other manufacturers instructions but the latter could be as simple as a label saying 230vac.

The word competent means a person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others.

To ensure the heater is of the right voltage would mean simply measuring the ohms and working out the approximate current or wattage it clearly would be rather low wattage and there would be a massive difference between a 12 volt heater and a 230 volt heater.

To me the competent thing is some what flawed as clearly if one makes a mistake then your not competent but there is no way to really define if some one is competent much would rely on the level of instruction given. But in a bathroom to be legal some one with government granted authority will need to oversee the work. Be it a scheme member electrician or a local authority building inspector. As a result it would be had to argue that the instructions were not sufficient unless either a scheme member electrician or a building inspector could not follow them. i.e. they don't have to be good enough for an ordinary person to understand.

If the mirror was not being fitted in a bathroom then you could have a case but it would be again up to courts to decide and not likely you will take to court.

I just can't see how you can argue about poor instructions for an item which under most UK law would need skilled person to fit it.

I do agree with you it should have detailed instructions but where I see the problem is in forcing the supplier to provide them when clearly not a DIY job.

Simple to install by whom? I am sure an electrician would find it simple to install.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

seller on ebay insists the item is not unfinished and they are all sent out like this.

Is he a UK seller?

Is the item CE marked? Got a link to it?

 

[foresttowndiy]

seller on ebay insists the item is not unfinished and they are all sent out like this.

Is he a UK seller?
Is the item CE marked?
Got a link to it?

Yes, UK seller.
Yes it's CE marked. Made in China.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120955565155
I'm sure the choc block is where it's got to go, it goes to the switched output of the IR switch, 2 wires go also from here to the led driver.
Without instructions I'm only sure, not positive. Even a spark would need instructions if he'd not done one before, but why should I expect a spark to have to complete the item, and have to pay him to do so? If I was Scotish I wouldn't need the spark, legally.
I'm not questioning who needs to wire it up, just questioning the fact it is sent out needing wiring up. They haven't even provided quick connect plugs yet have done so for the led's.
The sale doesn't mention any assembly required, nor are instructions provided, this in my mind is simply wrong.
When I 1st emailed saying it wasn't wired up they offered me a replacement then quickly retracted this offer. If I'd have simply told them it didn't work then I suppose I'd have got another one that needed completing, unless this one slipped through the QC line.

 

[Lectrician]

I really do not see the problem with it.

It's not fixed to a wall either. Did you expect them to send you it already fixed to a wall?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, UK seller.

Subject to UK laws then.

Yes it's CE marked. Made in China.

Ah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking#Misuse

If I was Scotish I wouldn't need the spark, legally.

You don't need one, legally, no matter what nationality you are.

The sale doesn't mention any assembly required, nor are instructions provided, this in my mind is simply wrong.

I believe that not providing inadequate instructions is an offence. Take it to Trading Standards and see what they say.