Self wire

[ldoodle]

OK, i'm not asking if or saying it's OK, but on Grand Designs last night, and some other episodes recently, people have wired their builds themselves.

And I don't mean electrics, but underground heating as well.

What do they do in this scenario re certification? The consensus is it's cheaper the get a sparks in for most work, so why don't they on Grand Designs?

 

[ricicle]

Most of the programmes I have seen the renovator has used Professional Electricians.
A domestic wiring set-up is hardly rocket science to a competant DIYer who has no problem researching information. Needless to say there is never a mention of Building Control regarding the rewiring and I'm sure more times that not a test instrument does not make an appearance.......

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[automationman]

Anyone who thinks they are competent can rewire their own home provided they notify LABC first, fill out an installation certificate then have the work inspected (paying the LABC fee of course)
However, it is unlikely that a DIYer will know the regs well enough and will probably not have an insulation tester, RCD tester and ELI tester so they will have nothing of any value to enter into the certificate and then need to call a professional which is then a bit late...


An electrician who can self certify can not certify another persons work unless that other person is directly contracted by the electrician and all wiring is available for inspection. This rule was created to allow the company "qualified supervisor" to inspect and certify work done by the other unregistered (but qualified) electricians working for the same company.

Part P (self certification) has been poorly promoted to the public and the term part P is misrepresented by many including the media. There really is no such thing as "part P" qualified. Part P is simply the document (document P) that that lists the requirements for the electrical part of the building regs.

A much more meaningful term for an electrician who can self certify a domestic installation is a Domestic Installer. There are two types of domestic installer:
1) limited scope (for plumbers/kitchen fiiters etc who need to do their own woiring in connection with their job)
2) Full Scope: Qualified Electricians who do a broad range of domestic electrical work full time.

Many (but not all) full scope domestic installers are also approved contractors working on commercial/industrial applications also.

You can search for domestic installers and see their status on
http://www.competentperson.co.uk/

 

[Wontdothatagain]

A recent job i was involved in,

Customer had self built an annex (1 bed bungalow) on the side of his house. Applied to LABC for permision and was granted. He worked under my supervision ie i told him where to run the cables and of what size to install, height of sockets and light switchs. LABC inspected 1st fix whilst there to inspect other work.

I second fixed, tested and energised and isued a generic instalation certificate. LABC sent round one of there electricians who tested a sample of the install and went through the results that i gave and they issued a certificate.

The owners argument was that he had payed building control a large fee for planning permision and so on, why should he pay again to have it certified.

 

[automationman]

Thats sounds like a reasonable solution to me with much better odds of a pass since an experienced electrician provided guidance. I don't blame the customer for not wanting to pay even more money to the LABC.

Sadly not everyone consults an experienced electrician and then they end up with something that needs a second partial rewire to put the first rewire right

 

[dingbat]

You were doing so well until this statement:

Part P is simply the document (document P) that that lists the requirements for the electrical part of the building regs.

Part P is a legal requirement to make 'reasonable provision' for electrical safety in dwellings, which you do by following...
Approved Document P, which is a non-statutory guidance document on compliance, which is met primarily by reference to...
The Requirements for Electrical Installations, which is a British Standard.

I know you know this, because you said:

the term part P is misrepresented by many

And you are bang on; so much of the misunderstanding is because of incorrect terminology.

 

[TicklyT]

Most of the buildings appearing on 'Grand Designs' etc. are new builds or complete renovations, so both the planning authority and building control would (or should) have been involved from the outset. So the (self) builder or householder / project manager would have needed to demonstrate compliance to a whole string of approved documents A to Z, and probably more. Demonstrating compliance with 'Part P' would be just a small part of such a project, not worth mentioning in a programme aimed more at exploring architecture than the nitty-gritty of performing each individual task.

Wontdothatagain :-

The owners argument was that he had payed building control a large fee for planning permision and so on, why should he pay again to have it certified.

Be careful not to confuse planning permission and building control. they are two seperate entities fulfilling different roles.

 

[Wontdothatagain]

Sorry, i should of said "all relervent fee's"

 

[automationman]

dingbat, you are right. I did (unintentionally) understate the significance of part P. I just wish that the media would use the term Domestic Installer and refer people to www.http://www.competentperson.co.uk
instead of telling them to find a "part P qualified electrician"

I do have one question:
That site (above) is definitive right? Not on it then not registered for domestic self certification is that right? I have always assumed that to be the case because the regsitering bodies (NICEIC, NAPIT, BRE, ELECSA etc) keep that local authority site updated don't they?

 

[wingcoax]

I don't think that site can be definitive, i;e; even if you are on the site, it does'nt mean that you are "COMPETENT" even if the site says you are.As has been said in the past on this forum, there are players and doers, if you get my meaning.

 

[automationman]

I don't disagree with that. I have seen the work of one particular registered electrician who I would not trust to wire a 13amp plug.

But as a way of finding out who is registered (for part P work) and who is not then is this a difinitive list? It looks to me as though it is yet it is not widely promoted as far as I can see (not too many people seem to know of its existance)

 

[plugwash]

What do they do in this scenario re certification? The consensus is it's cheaper the get a sparks in for most work, so why don't they on Grand Designs?

It's often cheaper to get a sparks in for small electrical only jobs because building control fees in that situation are excessive compared to the cost of the job.

OTOH if the job has (non-electrical) aspects that can't be self certified and as such LABC are involved anyway then provided LABC are behaving it's probablly cheaper to DIY.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have seen the work of one particular registered electrician who I would not trust to wire a 13amp plug.

'tis possible to become a registered electrician without having to demonstrate competence at wiring a plug, or indeed without ever having wired one in your life.....

 

[dingbat]

I just wish that the media would use the term Domestic Installer and refer people to www.http://www.competentperson.co.uk
instead of telling them to find a "part P qualified electrician"

Except that the term 'Domestic Installer' is not what most people think it is. A domestic installer is not a domestic-grade electrician. The term was chosen by the NICEIC for those registered on its Building Regulations self-certification scheme. Other scheme providers use different terminology, including things such as 'Part P Registered', 'Part P Approved'. Then there are training courses and qualifications advertised as 'Part P'.

Then, on top of that, the 'experts' on all those telly shows are always surveyors (who rarely have a handle on any specific trade) tradesmen (who may have some level of competence but are not exactly renowned for their grasp of the language) or puffed-up presenters, spouting garbage...

I do have one question:
That site (above) is definitive right? Not on it then not registered for domestic self certification is that right? I have always assumed that to be the case because the regsitering bodies (NICEIC, NAPIT, BRE, ELECSA etc) keep that local authority site updated don't they?

You have far more faith in the administrative competence of organisations than most!