Separate Spurs or Fused Connection Unit?

[JohnW2]

Thanks, I must need a new pair of glasses as I didn't see that in the fellows instructions.

It's there, albeit a bit 'hidden' and not quite where one would expect it:

Untitled

• JohnW2
• 23 Aug 2013
• 1

All in all it looks like I'd be well under 13A then at something around 3.5A for those 3 items which is good news.

Indeed. I think that even 3.5A is probably very pessimistic. I would not have expected the total to be much over 2A, and 1.7A of that (shredder) would only be 'very occasional'. The printer and network switch between them probably wouldn't account for much more than 0.5A, if that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[justintime2]

I can pass cable down from the loft along the front vertical corner of the cupboard within 150mm of the corner but to clip this vertical drop would the correct process be the following;

Remove a vertical section of plasterboard near to the corner and cable tie the t&e to the corner metal stud work? This metal work is right angle lengths. I don't appear to have any wooden battening on such a short width of stud partition.

Regards
Justin

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Is the circuit RCD protected?

 

[justintime2]

Is the circuit RCD protected?

Yes the CU has an RCD module which relates to this sockets circuit.

 

[justintime2]

Hi,

Anyone have any input on this please?

Would I be right in thinking I still need to clip inside a stud partition wall? I've seen other posts on here where someone asking about a socket install has not received any suggestion of clipping wire inside a stud wall, just vertical drop within zone above accessory.

I see the max. distances suggested in the following for 2.5mm T&E would be 300mm horizontal and 400mm vertical. This makes no mention of negating that requirement in stud walls though.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.4.1.htm

Would that not mean in a stud wall a cable running from a pattress would almost always have to travel in the horizontal zone to within 150mm of a corner before it could travel vertically? If this is the case, would cable tie saddles screwed to metal stud work (plus cable tie around cable of course) be an acceptable substitution for T&E cable clips?

Would a regulatory acceptable alternative be to run a length of T&E inside rigid plastic conduit? This suggests I could have 2 meters unsupported which would be enough to reach from ceiling/loft to horizontal socket zone but the following mentions unsheathed cables. I fail however to see how this provides any more vertical support than the cable just hanging down?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.5.1.htm

Regards
Justin

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi

Thanks for all the responses albeit I didn't understand 'He didn't'?

Any work I do must be tested and certified by a member of one of the recognised schemes or I pay £500+ to notify the work and they send an 'electrician' around to test and certify my work.

He didn't, actually

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

I can pass cable down from the loft along the front vertical corner of the cupboard within 150mm of the corner but to clip this vertical drop would the correct process be the following;

Remove a vertical section of plasterboard near to the corner and cable tie the t&e to the corner metal stud work? This metal work is right angle lengths. I don't appear to have any wooden battening on such a short width of stud partition.

Regards
Justin

If it's inside a cupboard, why not just clip it on the surface, or use some self-adhesive plastic trunking?

 

[justintime2]

Hi

Thanks for all the responses albeit I didn't understand 'He didn't'?

Any work I do must be tested and certified by a member of one of the recognised schemes or I pay £500+ to notify the work and they send an 'electrician' around to test and certify my work.

He didn't, actually

Kind Regards, John

Is this suggesting that non part p notifiable work still requires a qualified electrician to visit, test and certificate the work?

 

[justintime2]

I can pass cable down from the loft along the front vertical corner of the cupboard within 150mm of the corner but to clip this vertical drop would the correct process be the following;

Remove a vertical section of plasterboard near to the corner and cable tie the t&e to the corner metal stud work? This metal work is right angle lengths. I don't appear to have any wooden battening on such a short width of stud partition.

Regards
Justin

If it's inside a cupboard, why not just clip it on the surface, or use some self-adhesive plastic trunking?

Because surface mounted cabling is the spawn of the devil, lol.

 

[JohnW2]

Is this suggesting that non part p notifiable work still requires a qualified electrician to visit, test and certificate the work?

No. The quote itself (which, as I said, was not something I wrote) relates only to notifiable work.

However, there is a potential issue. Some/many would argue that any sort of electrical work (including non-notifiable work) should be undertaken in full compliance with BS7671 (as a means of satisfying Part P of the Building Refs) which, amongst other things, requires 'proper testing' as dictated by BS7671. Since that involves equipment and/or knowledge which the great majority of non-electricians would not have, or acquire, it can be used (and is effectively used by some) to argue that most DIY electrical work is non-compliant with BS7671 (hence Part P), and therefore should not be done by DIYers. I leave it to you and others to decide what you want to think about that!

Kind Regards, John

 

[justintime2]

Hi John,

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think a lot of professionals benefit from the reg's existence though in helping to dissuade members of the public doing anything and instead turning to a professional else you could be contravening x, y, z etc.

If you make a sound connection from point to point then there's no reason why something shouldn't be working if there wasn't a fault before you started. The regs are of course about more than something working, but some things such as clipping distances are a little OTT in terms of throwing common sense out the window. The regs are a symptom of modern society where common sense is no longer allowed to prevail because we must wet nurse those that are too dumb to cross a road without assistance and the climate of turning to litigation too readily. I would suggest that a few less cable clips than technically should be used would not make something unsafe, just maybe non compliant with regs. Therefore its more about being left open to being sued because something isn't compliant rather than something not being safe. Someone inappropriately wiring a plug with loose strands could cause more of a fire hazard than some things making an installation fall below compliance.

Anyway, this doesn't get me any closer to an answer regarding clipping inside a stud partition, any thoughts on that, is it enshrouded in some regulatory bible?

Regards
Justin

 

[JohnW2]

If you make a sound connection from point to point then there's no reason why something shouldn't be working if there wasn't a fault before you started.

I suppose it depends upon what point you've connected to what point, and whether any of what you've done results in cables/circuits being overloaded, inadequately protected etc. etc.!

The regs are a symptom of modern society where common sense is no longer allowed to prevail because we must wet nurse those that are too dumb to cross a road without assistance and the climate of turning to litigation too readily.

I think that many of us would agree with that!

Anyway, this doesn't get me any closer to an answer regarding clipping inside a stud partition, any thoughts on that, is it enshrouded in some regulatory bible?

I suspect that everyone is trying to avoid telling you that (AFAIAA) people just don't do that (certainly not unless the inside of the stud partition happens to be exposed, as during first fix of a new build - and, even then, there are practical downsides), perhaps because of uncertainties in their minds as to whether not clipping inside a stud wall is actually 'compliant with the regs'

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

The regs are of course about more than something working, but some things such as clipping distances are a little OTT in terms of throwing common sense out the window.

I would point out that the actual regulations rarely specify such things; relying on terms such as 'adequate' and 'acceptable'.

We have numerous subsequent fatuous publications which are written for the people to whom you refer.

 

[justintime2]

It just seemed odd that cables down and against block or brickwork that would be plastered over would require clipping and not so when hanging loose inside a partition.

Regards
Justin

 

[JohnW2]

It just seemed odd that cables down and against block or brickwork that would be plastered over would require clipping and not so when hanging loose inside a partition.

Cables which are to be plastered over don't really need to be clipped, per se, although they often will be clipped a little to keep them in place whilst being plastered. As you've been told, all the regs require that all cables (no matter where located/routed) should be 'adequately supported', the regs themselves give no specific definition or details about that. I agree it's a bit odd that a cable should be left 'hanging loose' within a wall in a manner which probably most would regard as unacceptable if it were on the surface of a wall - but, as I implied, I think you'd have to look very hard to find an electrician digging holes in a stud wall in order to clip a cable! In other words, 'practicability' seems to win the day in this situation!

Kind Regards, John