Separate Spurs or Fused Connection Unit?

[plugwash]

I agree it's a bit odd that a cable should be left 'hanging loose' within a wall in a manner which probably most would regard as unacceptable if it were on the surface of a wall

I don't, a cable on the surface is at much greater risk of getting caught and yanked than a cable inside a wall. So it needs much more support both to reduce the risk of it getting caught in the first place and to reduce the risk of it getting yanked out of the terminations if it does get caught.

 

[JohnW2]

I agree it's a bit odd that a cable should be left 'hanging loose' within a wall in a manner which probably most would regard as unacceptable if it were on the surface of a wall

I don't, a cable on the surface is at much greater risk of getting caught and yanked than a cable inside a wall. So it needs much more support both to reduce the risk of it getting caught in the first place and to reduce the risk of it getting yanked out of the terminations if it does get caught.

In terms of 'restraint', I agree, but a cable on the outside of a wall would probably be regarded as also requiring 'support' (i.e. against the effects of gravity), even if it were located somwhere (e.g. very high up) where the need for restraint (against 'yanking') was minimal.

Another interesting thing about cables 'hanging loose' within a wall is that I'm not quite sure how one is meant to determine whether or not they remain in safe zones and/or how farbeneath the surface they are!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[justintime2]

I think a loose cable in a partition is more at risk from being pulled or straying from safe zone than one covered in plaster as the only thing other than the terminal screws on the accessory would be the clip / restricted opening on the dry lined pattress box.

In relation to the cupboard i'm working on the stud partition is only about 90mm thick from top surface one side to top surface the other side. Even if the cable hung down the middle it would be under 50mm from the surface. If it were clipped within the safe zone where no upright or noggin existed then it would involve clipping to the reverse of the opposite sides plasterboard. That would however bring it very close to the surface on one side. Hence my surprise that everyone wouldn't be running horizontal to the closest corner and then up.

I know the regs state having an RCD in this situation in particular where the partition is constructed from metal parts but this doesn't wholly seem like prevention rather than cure.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Being in a corner does not negate the requirement for an RCD.

 

[justintime2]

Being in a corner does not negate the requirement for an RCD.

I wasn't suggesting it did.

It just seemed odd that cables down and against block or brickwork that would be plastered over would require clipping and not so when hanging loose inside a partition.

Cables which are to be plastered over don't really need to be clipped, per se, although they often will be clipped a little to keep them in place whilst being plastered. As you've been told, all the regs require that all cables (no matter where located/routed) should be 'adequately supported', the regs themselves give no specific definition or details about that. I agree it's a bit odd that a cable should be left 'hanging loose' within a wall in a manner which probably most would regard as unacceptable if it were on the surface of a wall - but, as I implied, I think you'd have to look very hard to find an electrician digging holes in a stud wall in order to clip a cable! In other words, 'practicability' seems to win the day in this situation!

Kind Regards, John

So the regs don't state distances that the cables should be supported?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I wasn't suggesting it did.

My mistake.

So the regs don't state distances that the cables should be supported?

No.

It would be difficult to imagine how a cable that was hanging vertically in a safe zone (through a noggin or two) is going to stray from its position or be damaged by the effects of gravity.

 

[justintime2]

I wasn't suggesting it did.

My mistake.

So the regs don't state distances that the cables should be supported?

No.

It would be difficult to imagine how a cable that was hanging vertically in a safe zone (through a noggin or two) is going to stray from its position or be damaged by the effects of gravity.

Dare I suggest some DIYer removing a socket and pulling it out too much for whatever reason, perhaps looking to run a spur from it.

So are these not regs stating cable clipping distances?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.4.1.htm

 

[JohnW2]

It would be difficult to imagine how a cable that was hanging vertically in a safe zone (through a noggin or two) is going to stray from its position ....

The noggins may well make that fairly true. However, in the absence of noggins (my house generally doesn't have them - just massive studs!), I think that the opposite may almost be the case - i.e. that "it would be difficult to imagine a cable that was hanging verically in a safe zone which one could be confident remained within the safe zone throughout its length" (unless it was pulled pretty taught, and kept like that).

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Dare I suggest some DIYer removing a socket and pulling it out too much for whatever reason, perhaps looking to run a spur from it.

I do not see how that would move the cable sideways but -
we do not have to install for future stupidity.

So are these not regs stating cable clipping distances?
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.4.1.htm[/QUOTE]
No, that is a document to which I earlier referred.

I fear you are progressing toward the sort of person whom you earlier derided.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The noggins may well make that fairly true. However, in the absence of noggins (my house generally doesn't have them - just massive studs!), I think that the opposite may almost be the case - i.e. that "it would be difficult to imagine a cable that was hanging verically in a safe zone which one could be confident remained within the safe zone throughout its length" (unless it was pulled pretty taught, and kept like that).

Were it installed straight in the first place (i.e. not twisted or tangled) I fail to see how it could do otherwise.

The socket width does allow for a slight deviation.

 

[JohnW2]

Were it installed straight in the first place (i.e. not twisted or tangled) I fail to see how it could do otherwise.

I don't deny that 'if it were installed straight in the first place' that it would be unlikely to subsequently move significantly. However, I think you may be overestimating how straight a cable may be after a fair bit of 'pushing, pulling, fishing etc.' to get it it to the desired place, particularly if a 'non-expert' is doing it! T&E can have a life of its own

The socket width does allow for a slight deviation.

True, but if it's a 'single-width' accessory (single socket, FCU, light switch etc.) the permitted deviation will, indeed, be pretty 'slight'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It just seemed odd that cables down and against block or brickwork that would be plastered over would require clipping and not so when hanging loose inside a partition.

You should have a copy of Guidance Note 3:

- vertical cables which are inaccessible and unlikely to be disturbed, 5m intervals

 

[JohnW2]

You should have a copy of Guidance Note 3: - vertical cables which are inaccessible and unlikely to be disturbed, 5m intervals

True, and IIRC the OSG has a view on such matters, too. However, given that the OP has been talking about regulations, we need to put out to him that none of these guidances are 'regulations'.

Kind Regards, John