Should I have a pumped shower?

[LeeJC]

Hi Everyone,

I'm after some suggestions please on how best to deal with a pair of showers in a vented hot water system.

Current installation consists of (I believe, I've not moved in yet)
Main brand Heat only boiler (new)
Hot Vented Cylinder in airing cupboard (size dunno but can provide a picture)
Cold Storage in loft (Size TBD/Height TBD)
Main Bathroom with no shower currently but would like a pumped solution - Considering a power shower but....
En-Suite with electric shower - want to find a more invigorating solution for this.

Now I had looked at a 3.0bar Stuart Turner Monsoon to feed both showers but I was wondering I've come cap in hand asking for suggestions please.
I really don't like/hate/distrust/generally can't get my large 6'4" frame comfortably washed under any electric shower I've ever come across.
My head pressure/flow hasn't been checked yet but that'll be one of the first jobs..................

So ideas please people
Thanks
Lee

 

[terryplumb]

Fit the pump ,can be used to pump 2 showers with hot and cold water. Gravity fed showers without a pump usually give poor water flow, and most instantaneous electric showers are not much better !

 

[HERTS P&D]

Lee, go with the 3 bar stuart turner pump. You will be very pleased.

Andy

 

[Bod ...]

Hi Everyone,

I'm after some suggestions please on how best to deal with a pair of showers in a vented hot water system.

Current installation consists of (I believe, I've not moved in yet)
Main brand Heat only boiler (new)
Hot Vented Cylinder in airing cupboard (size dunno but can provide a picture)
Cold Storage in loft (Size TBD/Height TBD)
Main Bathroom with no shower currently but would like a pumped solution - Considering a power shower but....
En-Suite with electric shower - want to find a more invigorating solution for this.

Now I had looked at a 3.0bar Stuart Turner Monsoon to feed both showers but I was wondering I've come cap in hand asking for suggestions please.
I really don't like/hate/distrust/generally can't get my large 6'4" frame comfortably washed under any electric shower I've ever come across.
My head pressure/flow hasn't been checked yet but that'll be one of the first jobs..................

So ideas please people
Thanks
Lee

If you go for the Stuart Turner have you got the stated usable litres in storage?

Can you pipe up from CWST & cylinder to the manufacturers instructions?

 

[LeeJC]

Hi All,

Thanks I think I'll go with the Stuart Turner then.
@bod I can pipe up to the Storage and Cylinder according to the installation docs, and the Main Bathroom sits adjacent to the Cylinder so I'm not greatly worried about that install. It's a bit of a run to the En-Suite though.
Should I aim for 22 feeds as far as possible, or will I be ok dropping down to 15 within the airing cupboard?
I was going to use the aqualisa midas 110 range thermostatic mixer bar as I've had a good experience with them in this property.

Thanks

 

[Madrab]

As suggested, you would want at least a 50Gal CWSC and at least a 200L HW cylinder, a 3bar monsoon will eat it's way through stored capacity in no time. You may also want to ensure that there is a 22mm feed to the CWSC too.

If there is a possibility of both showers running at once, if there are to be 2, then you will have to increase the capacities. Have you looked at other alternatives, e.g unvented?

 

[Bod ...]

I do believe Stuart Turner want 50 gal usable storage so a 50 tank will not be big enough.

 

[fixitflav]

I do believe Stuart Turner want 50 gal usable storage so a 50 tank will not be big enough.

Doesn't that depend on the flow into the CWST from the mains?

 

[Madrab]

Not sure ST dictate an absolute requirement on the amount of storage, rather they used to state that the storage should be suitable to supply the flow rates required by all outlets that may be used at the same time. They may recommend minimums for a given pump size and output but there would be too many determining factors. As suggested, input into the CWSC also max output that the outlet can deliver to name a couple.

 

[Bod ...]

Not sure ST dictate an absolute requirement on the amount of storage, rather they used to state that the storage should be suitable to supply the flow rates required by all outlets that may be used at the same time. They may recommend minimums for a given pump size and output but there would be too many determining factors. As suggested, input into the CWSC also max output that the outlet can deliver to name a couple.

And suppose location and time of year near farmers fields.

 

[LeeJC]

I've not yet checked the size of the CWST but if it's not a 50 Gallon+ I'll replace it as the first task.
The house is 1990's vintage and what I'm anticipating is that the downstairs cold feeds (2 Sinks/Cloakroom Basin/Toilet) are all at mains pressure, but I'll check before ripping anything out.

Now...........
If the CWST isn't 50+ Gallons and I want to fit a 50 or 70 Gallon Coffin tank in the loft should I :-

Look at putting the tank as high as possible in the loft space?
Get some maths wizard to advise on the strengthening of the roof trusses bottom chord to deal with 320kg loading (70 Gallon Tank)???

Thanks

 

[Johntheo5]

Maybe make a note of your highest consumption and time span, you may need a (one) shower flow of say 15LPM, two showers running for say 15 minutes means that the CWST must be able to supply the difference between that and the filling flow, if the filling flow is 15LPM then the CWST must be able to supply (15X15) 225 litres for 15 minutes. If you are coming from a electric shower with its mean flow of ~ 4.5LPM then you could fit flow restrictors to limit your new showers to say 10LPM which will still feel like heaven and a 75L CWST will suffice!!.

 

[Bod ...]

I've not yet checked the size of the CWST but if it's not a 50 Gallon+ I'll replace it as the first task.
The house is 1990's vintage and what I'm anticipating is that the downstairs cold feeds (2 Sinks/Cloakroom Basin/Toilet) are all at mains pressure, but I'll check before ripping anything out.

Now...........
If the CWST isn't 50+ Gallons and I want to fit a 50 or 70 Gallon Coffin tank in the loft should I :-

Look at putting the tank as high as possible in the loft space?
Get some maths wizard to advise on the strengthening of the roof trusses bottom chord to deal with 320kg loading (70 Gallon Tank)???

Thanks

If your going to that extent then why not fit an unvented. Very little to go wrong. Little if no water in loft that's pron to freezing and no noise.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Look at putting the tank as high as possible in the loft space?

You don't need to rasie the tank for pressure if you are fitting a bootser pump, as long as enough water triggers the pump.

Andy

 

[Johntheo5]

Some shower mixers & shower heads have a flow resistance that doesn't allow the required 0.6/1.0LPM flow required to start the pump, you dont want to be stepping out of the shower to open a hot tap to start the pump or throwing the shower head to the floor to start it, even though more expansive, a universal (negative) type pump might be the prudent choise.