Should I rewire the lighting?

[ab8oje]

I own an old flat to which I am going to make some alterations,. I have had an electrician in who says I need a new consumer unit as the old fuse box will not cope with new circuts and an electric shower. Anyway, my concern is that the existing lighting which has no earth wire may not be compatible with the new consumer unit. Can I get the consumer unit replaced and leave the lighting as it is? What are chances of the consumer unit not working/ faults developing?

Thanks,

Oliver.

 

[the_jinj]

It may well need a rewire but can't tell without more detail - can you post pics of the CU and maybe the connections at the light fitting.
If the CU and wiring are very old then the safest thing is to replace all rather than bodge old and new - could have problems passing test results, need new bonding etc

Where abouts in Glasgow is the flat?

 

[baldelectrician]

Want the bad news or the bad news?

For what you are getting done you REQUIRE a building warrant.

Rewires , new CU's and wiring to artificial lighting ALL require a building warrant.

Why bother I hear you say?

The PIP (purchasers information pack) is about to hit the streets later in the year the first thing they will check is if any work has been done that requires a warrant and if one has been obtained.

pip info at
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Housing/Housing/16193/BuyingSelling/18223/PIPsection/PIPIntro


You require to download the form from the council
http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0A330F4C-26F9-4FB2-BB68-3BB85EDFDD9C/0/BCFormA.pdf

It's really upto you but if you decide to go down the building warrant route you should use a contractor who is registered with SELECT ot the NICIEC, the council deem companies listed with these organisations as 'competent installers'
see page 6 of...
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/pdfs/Electrical Guidance for Verifiers 29Mar06.pdf

If you don't go down the warrant route you could have problems selling the house if it comes up in the survey (as it almost certainly will) as you will be over a barrel trying to get a competent installer to certify someone elses work.

As a ballpark figure you should be paying <£2100 for a complete rewire of a 1-2 bedroom standard flat including ALL warrant costs and certification.

I have more info on my website at
http://www.baldelectrician.com/buildingstds/warrant.pdf
you can email me from there if you want more info.

 

[plugwash]

realistically how is a quick survey going to be able to tell the difference between a rewire of the lighting done now and one that was done before part P came in? unless they actually go searching for date codes but that seems unlikely and in any case accessory replacement is not notifiable anyway (so date codes wouldn't prove anything).

 

[the_jinj]

Part P doesn't apply - have needed a warrant for this work for a long time.
Not 100% convinced the pip is going to work well and I reckon it will end up as a quick survey and gathering of what papers available.
Need to read a bit more about it to be honest.

Should definetely get a warrant for this anyway, PIP or not.

 

[baldelectrician]

realistically how is a quick survey going to be able to tell the difference between a rewire of the lighting done now and one that was done before part P came in? unless they actually go searching for date codes but that seems unlikely and in any case accessory replacement is not notifiable anyway (so date codes wouldn't prove anything).

NO PART P in Scotland

new cable colours = recent work
the regs for warrant works in flats have been aroung since before the cable colours came in- they are only now being enforced since the new building (Scotland) act came in on 1st May 2005.

quick look around, see recent works = ask for further investigation then find out
Remember electrical works will tie in with other works (such as a new bathroom or kitchen) and they are easy to spot.

 

[the_jinj]

I know what your saying....but look at surveys now - guy turns up - quick look - £80 thank you. More if it's an in depth survey.
So this is either going to cost the buyer or seller a lot to get done above the price a survey is now as it is a lot more involved and more work/paperwork involved.

Just a thought - what you think?

 

[baldelectrician]

i think the sellers solicitors will put 'warrant required?' at the top of their tick sheets, so not to be caught out. The seller will either have to come clean and tell all or sign a disclaimer to say no warrant works including electrical works were carried out.
If they lie or withold things it will come out.

 

[ab8oje]

Thanks for the in depth response. I do indeed have a building warrant for the alterations being made at my flat, however I disagree with you saying that a building warrant is required for electrical installations/ rewiring. The new electrics must indeed comply with the 16th edition of the IEE Regulation and to BS7671, I will need to show building control an electrical certification certificate on completion.

Cheers,

Oliver.

 

[the_jinj]

Thanks for the in depth response. I do indeed have a building warrant for the alterations being made at my flat, however I disagree with you saying that a building warrant is required for electrical installations/ rewiring. The new electrics must indeed comply with the 16th edition of the IEE Regulation and to BS7671, I will need to show building control an electrical certification certificate on completion.

Cheers,

Oliver.

Oliver a warrant is required for this work in a flat - if it's a rewire.

 

[ab8oje]

I work in an architectural office, I have asked a senior Architect and he insists that a certificate of compliance is required upon completion. Building warrants are not directly for the purpose you mention.

 

[the_jinj]

Have a look at the doc from baldelectricians website - it's the same as on SBSA - http://www.baldelectrician.com/buildingstds/warrant.pdf
Rewire in a flat - warrant required

You mention you have a warrant ok so your covered anyway

 

[baldelectrician]

I feel you have came to this site for advice and are completely ignoring it. I am not an architect so know only a limited amount. I am however a 'Certirier Of Construction' and have spent >£2000 with SELECT & NICIEC over the past 18 months. I am a bit tight as money goes, so I DENFINATELY wouldn't have 'wasted' my money.

If you want advice on drawings for buildings see an architect, if you want advice on building warrants relating to electrical installations take notice of people who do this for a living.

If you have a building warrant for other related works you could probably get the stuff included at no cost, and YES you will have to provide an electrical installation certificate to BS7671, this should be from a member of SELECT, NICEIC [ see the defenition of 'competent person' on the SBSA website] or someone that can PROVE equivalent level of competence with the Building (Scotland) Regs.

see the sbsa website I posted earlier, or give the council Building Standards department a call- remember to ask for any response in writing as things can change, and then you are covered.

 

[baldelectrician]

I work in an architectural office, I have asked a senior Architect and he insists that a certificate of compliance is required upon completion. Building warrants are not directly for the purpose you mention.

Why not print off a copy of the latest directive, and give him a copy- he (and you) may become more enlightened.
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/pdfs/Electrical Guidance for Verifiers 29Mar06.pdf

cheers
Stewart

 

[ab8oje]

Thanks very much!

Oliver