Sir Ivan Rogers Brexit speech

[Notch7]

I thought this speech a very interesting insight into the Brexit process so far.

Its quite long, I expect only diehards will read more than a line.....

A snipet on the May deal:

I dislike plenty of the Prime Minister’s deal. It’s obviously a bad deal. But given her own views and preferences, her bitterly divided Party and the negotiating realities with the other side of the table, I can at least understand that she is on pretty much the only landing zone she could ever reach

What we can expect from the trade negotiations:

And finally, the solidarity of the club members will ALWAYS be with each other, not with you. We have seen that over the backstop issue over the last 18 months. The 26 supported Dublin, not London. They still do. Nothing the Prime Minister now bids for will change that.

This may be the first Anglo-Irish negotiation in history where the greater leverage is not on London’s side of the table. And the vituperation aimed at Dublin politicians tells one just how well that has gone down with politicians and apparatchiks who had not bothered to work out that this was no longer a bilateral business, and are now appalled to find they are cornered.

Well, just wait till the trade negotiations. The solidarity of the remaining Member States will be with the major fishing Member States, not with the U.K. The solidarity will be with Spain, not the U.K., when Madrid makes Gibraltar-related demands in the trade negotiation endgame. The solidarity will be with Cyprus when it says it wants to avoid precedents which might be applied to Turkey.

I could go on. And on… The Free Trade Agreement talks will be tougher than anything we have seen to date

Full speech here:
https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/

 

[durhamplumber]

"We are indeed, a soon-to-be third world country and an opponent and rival, not just a partner, now. Again, that is what Brexit advocates argued for. It is time to accept the consequences."
Another doom and gloom merchant.Bring on the consequences.

 

[JohnD]

And finally, the solidarity of the club members will ALWAYS be with each other

We were members, and nearly 52% of those who voted wanted to throw away our membership. To throw away the support of our fellow members, our seat in the chamber, our votes in the Parliament. Is anybody moaning that we are no longer being treated as members, but as the outsiders 52% wanted to be?

 

[durhamplumber]

We were members, and nearly 52% of those who voted wanted to throw away our membership. To throw away the support of our fellow members, our seat in the chamber, our votes in the Parliament. Is anybody moaning that we are no longer being treated as members, but as the outsiders 52% wanted to be?

Wont be long before Spain Italy and Greece leave

 

[Notch7]

Another doom and gloom merchant.Bring on the consequences.

I dont like the guys Remainers partly sarcastic approach, but his understanding of how the EU have totally boxed in the UK.

I dont like the EU, never have. However the reality is staying in the EU is the only worthwhile option.

No deal cant happen and it wont happen (much as I would love it to be a positive, possible solution).

No deal is currently a political hoax / negotiating stance.

My concern over the very long term is that the EU is a huge concentration of power - that naturally leads to ever increasing self interest.

 

[SirGalahad]

Wont be long before Spain Italy and Greece leave

What you smoking?

 

[SirGalahad]

I dont like the guys Remainers partly sarcastic approach, but his understanding of how the EU have totally boxed in the UK.

I dont like the EU, never have. However the reality is staying in the EU is the only worthwhile option.

No deal cant happen and it wont happen (much as I would love it to be a positive, possible solution).

No deal is currently a political hoax / negotiating stance.

My concern over the very long term is that the EU is a huge concentration of power - that naturally leads to ever increasing self interest.

So is it not best we try stay in the EU and guide it as best we can?

I'd rather have a seat at the table.

 

[Notch7]

So is it not best we try stay in the EU and guide it as best we can?

I'd rather have a seat at the table.

I agree.....reluctantly.

I dont think DP will come around any time soon

 

[ellal]

I agree.....reluctantly.

Do you believe there should be a third European referendum then?

 

[Notch7]

Do you believe there should be a third European referendum then?

No

I think a second referendum on the EU is a good idea though.

I see Corbyn is still maintaining his creative ambiguity stance on Brexit.

He still wont commit to a 2nd referendum.
Labour still maintain their 6 tests - which the EU wont accept.

 

[vinty]

I thought this speech a very interesting insight into the Brexit process so far.

Its quite long, I expect only diehards will read more than a line.....

A snipet on the May deal:

I dislike plenty of the Prime Minister’s deal. It’s obviously a bad deal. But given her own views and preferences, her bitterly divided Party and the negotiating realities with the other side of the table, I can at least understand that she is on pretty much the only landing zone she could ever reach

What we can expect from the trade negotiations:

And finally, the solidarity of the club members will ALWAYS be with each other, not with you. We have seen that over the backstop issue over the last 18 months. The 26 supported Dublin, not London. They still do. Nothing the Prime Minister now bids for will change that.

This may be the first Anglo-Irish negotiation in history where the greater leverage is not on London’s side of the table. And the vituperation aimed at Dublin politicians tells one just how well that has gone down with politicians and apparatchiks who had not bothered to work out that this was no longer a bilateral business, and are now appalled to find they are cornered.

Well, just wait till the trade negotiations. The solidarity of the remaining Member States will be with the major fishing Member States, not with the U.K. The solidarity will be with Spain, not the U.K., when Madrid makes Gibraltar-related demands in the trade negotiation endgame. The solidarity will be with Cyprus when it says it wants to avoid precedents which might be applied to Turkey.

I could go on. And on… The Free Trade Agreement talks will be tougher than anything we have seen to date

Full speech here:
https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/

That bloke Rogers doesn't know what he is talking about when he talks about the balance of power in Anglo Irish negotiations.
He doesn't understand that the Europeans have always sided with Ireland against Britain.
Historically the Spanish ,the French and the Germans have all tried to use Ireland as leverage against Britain.
It is no different this time around,the EU are only using the Irish ,Juncker has taken to wearing a green tie in solidarity with the Irish, he is no different from the Nazis who supported anti British forces in Ireland in WW2.
The EU don't seem to understand what they are getting into by trying to set Southern Ireland against Northern Ireland.
EU political manipulation caused Civil war in Ukraine are they trying the same in Ireland.

 

[durhamplumber]

What you smoking?

You will see dude.

 

[durhamplumber]

Do you believe there should be a third European referendum then?

No,,had one,,and a general election.

 

[durhamplumber]

I agree.....reluctantly.

I dont think DP will come around any time soon

Never a more true word spoken Notchy.

 

[durhamplumber]

First rule in any negotiation,be prepared to walk away..The govt starting to realise that,,now a game of who blinks first..All this scary stuff is utter guff designed to intimidate us into accepting less.