Smart Meter removal

[Hysteresis]

Don't Agree John D. Electrical Power consumption is far to variable for frequent samples to be of any use what so ever, Unless you mean frequency of one every minute, and that is impractical.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

IHNI what JohnD meant by "frequent", but he can tell us what it is.

IMO, for that sort of measuring, it would be 10s or 100s of times a second. I would definitely not regard "one every minute" as anywhere near frequent enough.

 

[JohnW2]

w.r.t. ericmarks's comment regarding Amps being good enough. Not really mate, you would have to record continuously the current bring drawn, as it is very variable, then integrate the graph to get ampere hours then multiply the result by the Voltage to derive at Watt Hours.

That would be potentially quite inaccurate, since voltage also varies, as does power factor. To get accurate Wh data one needs to 'continuously' (as a Wh meter does) or, at least very frequently, undertake a vector multiplication of current and voltage (vector so as to take PF into account) to get Watts and then integrate those figures over time to get Wh.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Hysteresis]

Quite agree JohnW2, although variation of Voltage is very limited. PF maybe. As I commented to ericmark, current is of no use at all.

 

[JohnW2]

Quite agree JohnW2, although variation of Voltage is very limited.

Over what timescale? With the present situation, with considerable variation in demand during the 24 hours, someone fairly distant from the transformer will see quite appreciable variations in supply voltage.

PF maybe.

Again it depends upon timescale. A given load will not generally show much variation in PF, but different loads can have very different PFs, so appreciable variation between different times (when different loads are present).

Kind Regards, John

 

[HawkEye244]

You are not stuck with a smart meter if you change your mind, you can have any meter you want that conforms to the legislation, the supplier will turn around and say you can't but this is where consumers don't know their rights. They don't have to have a smart meter. If the supplier refuses quote them the legislation, it's in there somewhere, the gas act or the electricity act spring to mind. Failing that have the thing privately removed and a new meter fitted of your choosing, they would find it difficult to argue this in court seeing as they have not followed your direct instruction to remove it, leaving you no other option but to have it done yourself. Don't throw away their meter though, they own it. Leave it on the doorstep for them to collect. A good rule in life is to treat people the way they treat you, and that applies to faceless greed driven energy companies as well.

 

[motorbiking]

I did some patent work a while back for a smart meter firm. Scary stuff what they are thinking. Ofgem allow you to request the Smart feature are turned off. Probably doesn't make the thing any easier to use though.

 

[JohnW2]

I did some patent work a while back for a smart meter firm. Scary stuff what they are thinking. Ofgem allow you to request the Smart feature are turned off. Probably doesn't make the thing any easier to use though.

As I keep saying, I don't see that many of the 'sinister' things that people fear will be possible until smart meters which can do it have been fully 'rolled out' and 'smart appliances' have not only appeared but have come into widespread use. I suppose I may be wrong (again!) but that definitely sounds like 'decades' to me (and I'm already past 'retirement age'!).

One thing I've read (be it true or not) is that most electricity suppliers have said that they would not use the 'remote disconnect' or 'remote re-connect' facilities because of safety concerns. Whist I can understand that such unexpected losses or re-appearances of electricity could result in injuries or deaths, I don't really see that it is any different from (accidental or deliberate) 'block power cuts'. Maybe they are worried that if they did it 'for commercial reasons' and killed someone, both the media and courts would probably be very unsympathetic!

Kind Regards, John

 

[motorbiking]

it’s really about them working out what you are doing based on your usage, so that they can sell to you

 

[ericmark]

For an individual appliance you need to likely measure power factor, volts, watts and watt/hours, so you can for example measure the power used by your freezer over a set times and from that calculate the kWh/annum to see if it is working as it should or if there is a fault like loss of some of the gas.

However as a whole house it may highlight an unexplained draw where some thing is left on, but all you need to know is something is drawing current when it should not, you really don't need to know how much, just that something is working when it should not be.

The plug in meter does help to chose what you do, for example a Sky box uses around 12 Wh to be able to update program change information, you have to decide if worth the cost to have it auto change recoding times when the programming times change, but for most of the time you can see what some thing uses by simply reading the label, very few items need to be recorded using an energy meter and even when they are a general meter that measures all tells you very little of use.

I know like everyone else if I turn my heating down it will save money, knowing if I drop the temperature by one degree it will save me £X will help me decide if I want to live in a cool house or a warm house. However to measure not only do you need to measure gas used, but also wind direction and speed and outside temperature I am sure I could get a weather station and do that, however I really can't be bothered.

 

[ericmark]

As I keep saying, I don't see that many of the 'sinister' things that people fear will be possible until smart meters which can do it have been fully 'rolled out' and 'smart appliances' have not only appeared but have come into widespread use. I suppose I may be wrong (again!) but that definitely sounds like 'decades' to me (and I'm already past 'retirement age'!).

One thing I've read (be it true or not) is that most electricity suppliers have said that they would not use the 'remote disconnect' or 'remote re-connect' facilities because of safety concerns. Whist I can understand that such unexpected losses or re-appearances of electricity could result in injuries or deaths, I don't really see that it is any different from (accidental or deliberate) 'block power cuts'. Maybe they are worried that if they did it 'for commercial reasons' and killed someone, both the media and courts would probably be very unsympathetic!

Kind Regards, John

Since this was done during the miners strike, I would think there is some where data on deaths due to power failures or restores.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As I keep saying, I don't see that many of the 'sinister' things that people fear will be possible until smart meters which can do it have been fully 'rolled out' and 'smart appliances' have not only appeared but have come into widespread use. I suppose I may be wrong (again!) but that definitely sounds like 'decades' to me (and I'm already past 'retirement age'!).

You've used the term "sinister" before.

I don't see that there is anything "sinister" about a regime which says, for example, "between 06:00 and 24:00 you may not consume more than x kW", or "given the new pricing structure you would benefit if your appliances could negotiate with each other and with the supply infrastructure to decide what runs and when".

But then I don't own any tinfoil hats.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

This made me chuckle:

Householders also receive a digital display that shows exactly how much power they are consuming – and its cost – in real time. The idea is that, when faced with their consumption, consumers will be more likely to switch off lights or electrical items that are on standby, or to adopt energy-saving measures. As a result they will be nudged into cutting their overall consumption – though early figures show cuts are surprisingly low.​

No surprise to me.

 

[Echo the husky]

They could save even more electric if they unplugged the silly display thing. 2 of our clients who have had new meters fitted weren't interested at all and have said they threw the displays in the bin.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It reminds me of the sales pitches from people selling boiling water taps - they are predicated on the idea that people are too thick to grasp the principle of only putting one mug's worth of water into a kettle if you only want to make one mug of hot drink.

The suggestion that a display will save you money is predicated on the idea that people are too thick to turn off things which they don't need to have on.