socket from fused switched spur

[justintime2]

Hi

I'm trying to upgrade facilities behind TV in a modern house of about 4 years old. I'd like to know please if it is possible to add additional power sockets to an existing switched spur? The switched spur has two cables inside, I figure this is on a ring where one is feeding in and the other is connected to a pair of sockets outside in an IP rated box with hinged front. Due to the location of the switched spur I was wondering if it is possible and allowable to connect a spur socket to it?

What I've chased in so far is for speaker cable and ethernet in the other but I'd like a second double gang power socket to the right of these.

Regards
Justin

 

[JohnW2]

I'm trying to upgrade facilities behind TV in a modern house of about 4 years old. I'd like to know please if it is possible to add additional power sockets to an existing switched spur? The switched spur has two cables inside, I figure this is on a ring where one is feeding in and the other is connected to a pair of sockets outside in an IP rated box with hinged front. Due to the location of the switched spur I was wondering if it is possible and allowable to connect a spur socket to it?

I don't really understand how your picture relates to what you've said/asked. If it is (per title of thread) a fused spur which is supplying sockets, then, almost regardless of what circuit it derives from, you can add as many additional sockets (to the load side of the fused connector unit, FCU) as you wish. However, the total current you could draw from all the sockets would obviously be limited to 13A.

Kind Regards, John

 

[lxboy]

Yes, is the sort answer, as long as the FCU is not a spur from the ring you add a double socket as a spur.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Lxboy

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, is the sort answer, as long as the FCU is not a spur from the ring you add a double socket as a spur.

One can add any number of additional sockets (to the load side of the FCU) even if the FCU is a spur from the ring.

If the FCU were part of the ring, rather than a spur from it, then one could also add one socket (as an unfused spur) from the supply side of the FCU - or, alternatively, could supply a second FCU (supplying any number of sockets) from the supply side of the first FCU.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not allowed.


//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls

 

[riveralt]

I think what is confusing me is that I can see the switched spur to the right of the picture and two double gang back boxes with chases rising up.
If this is the spur and these are the sockets (to be) I would have thought a horizontal chase from the spur would be the most appropriate route.
I would also confirm that the spur is actually a spur from the ring final circuit and not a spur from a spur - you should be able to see from the direction of the supply cable into the FCU which socket it has come from.

 

[riveralt]

Not allowed.


//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls

Would that apply to speaker and/or Ethernet cables?

 

[JohnW2]

I think what is confusing me is that I can see the switched spur to the right of the picture and two double gang back boxes with chases rising up. If this is the spur and these are the sockets (to be) I would have thought a horizontal chase from the spur would be the most appropriate route.

Indeed - that's why I said that I wasn't sure how the picture related to the question.

I would also confirm that the spur is actually a spur from the ring final circuit and not a spur from a spur - you should be able to see from the direction of the supply cable into the FCU which socket it has come from.

Indeed. I rather dangerously 'assumed' that the FCU was a 'legitimate' (compliant) one. As you say, if it were fed from an unfused spur, the situation would not be compliant, even now. Having said that, although I should not say this, adding further sockets to the load side of the FCU would not make the situation any worse than it currently is, even if the current situation were wrong/non-compliant.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Not allowed.//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls

Would that apply to speaker and/or Ethernet cables?

I may be wrong but, AFAIAA (and whatever one may think about it), I don't think the regs differentiate between LV and ELV/signal/data cables in terms of permissible installation techniques. I would like to be wrong

Kind Regards, John

 

[justintime2]

I'm trying to upgrade facilities behind TV in a modern house of about 4 years old. I'd like to know please if it is possible to add additional power sockets to an existing switched spur? The switched spur has two cables inside, I figure this is on a ring where one is feeding in and the other is connected to a pair of sockets outside in an IP rated box with hinged front. Due to the location of the switched spur I was wondering if it is possible and allowable to connect a spur socket to it?

I don't really understand how your picture relates to what you've said/asked. If it is (per title of thread) a fused spur which is supplying sockets, then, almost regardless of what circuit it derives from, you can add as many additional sockets (to the load side of the fused connector unit, FCU) as you wish. However, the total current you could draw from all the sockets would obviously be limited to 13A.

Kind Regards, John

Sorry for the confusion.

Upon rechecking, I have discovered that the fused switched spur shown to the right of the picture is not operating what I originally thought. As yet I don't know what it controls as I have tried totally disconnecting it and found everything to still work. I shall have to ask my neighbour when he returns from his holiday as his house is the same as ours. I can establish then whether it is original to the house or whether the previous owner has done it. At present the two cables connecting to this FCU are only to the Supply side so is it possible that nothing is intended to work from it and it is merely in the ring?

The vertical chases to 2 dual gang pattresses are intended for speaker connections in one and ethernet in the other.

I've yet to put a pattress in for the additional dual gang power sockets.

Regards
Justin

 

[justintime2]

This was only intended to relocate the telephone wire so that the old telephone socket pattress position can be re-purposed as satellite connections.

 

[JohnW2]

Sorry for the confusion. ... Upon rechecking, I have discovered that the fused switched spur shown to the right of the picture is not operating what I originally thought. As yet I don't know what it controls as I have tried totally disconnecting it and found everything to still work. At present the two cables connecting to this FCU are only to the Supply side so is it possible that nothing is intended to work from it and it is merely in the ring?

If there are two cables connected to the supply side, and none to the load side, it is indeed very likely that the FCU is wired into a sockets circuit (be it ring or radial), and obvious that it is currently not 'supplying' anything (nothing connected to load side). If that can be confimed, and since it has nothing connected to its load side, that might provide the means of connecting your additional sockets (to the load side), provided that a total current (for all new sockets) of 13A ws adequate for your purposes.

You say that you tried 'totally disconnecting' the FCU. If it is part of a sockets circuit (particularly if a ring circuit), you must maintain the connection between the two cables which are connected to its supply side. Not doing so would cause some sockets not to work if it were a radial circuit, but would (by 'breaking the ring') create a potentially dangerous situation if it were a ring circuit.

The vertical chases to 2 dual gang pattresses are intended for speaker connections in one and ethernet in the other.

Thanks for clarifying.

Kind Regards, John

 

[justintime2]

Sorry for the confusion. ... Upon rechecking, I have discovered that the fused switched spur shown to the right of the picture is not operating what I originally thought. As yet I don't know what it controls as I have tried totally disconnecting it and found everything to still work. At present the two cables connecting to this FCU are only to the Supply side so is it possible that nothing is intended to work from it and it is merely in the ring?

If there are two cables connected to the supply side, and none to the load side, it is indeed very likely that the FCU is wired into a sockets circuit (be it ring or radial), and obvious that it is currently not 'supplying' anything (nothing connected to load side). If that can be confimed, and since it has nothing connected to its load side, that might provide the means of connecting your additional sockets (to the load side), provided that a total current (for all new sockets) of 13A ws adequate for your purposes.

You say that you tried 'totally disconnecting' the FCU. If it is part of a sockets circuit (particularly if a ring circuit), you must maintain the connection between the two cables which are connected to its supply side. Not doing so would cause some sockets not to work if it were a radial circuit, but would (by 'breaking the ring') create a potentially dangerous situation if it were a ring circuit.

The vertical chases to 2 dual gang pattresses are intended for speaker connections in one and ethernet in the other.

Thanks for clarifying.

Kind Regards, John

It definitely only has two cables, both connected to supply. It just seemed odd that it exists in a modern build home but doesn't appear to have any purpose. Would it be possible to connect one dual gang twin power socket as a spur from the supply side of the FCU? You mentioned a single socket being possible in your earlier post but did you mean that literally as one single power socket? I'd like the dual gang power sockets to not be controlled by the switch on the fused switched spur.

Regards
Justin

 

[riveralt]

It definitely only has two cables, both connected to supply. It just seemed odd that it exists in a modern build home but doesn't appear to have any purpose. Would it be possible to connect one dual gang twin power socket as a spur from the supply side of the FCU?

If the FCU is fused to 13A you can connect as many sockets as you want to the LOAD side of the FCU - and use up to the fuse limit.

 

[JohnW2]

It definitely only has two cables, both connected to supply. It just seemed odd that it exists in a modern build home but doesn't appear to have any purpose.

One can but presume that it was either installed as 'provision' for something inthe future,or else whatever it was supplying has been removed.

Would it be possible to connect one dual gang twin power socket as a spur from the supply side of the FCU? You mentioned a single socket being possible in your earlier post but did you mean that literally as one single power socket?

Yes, as I said, you can have one 'socket' supplied as an unfused spur from the supply side. For better or for the worse, the regulations allow just one 'socket' - one single socket or one double socket (but not two single sockets) on an unfused spur.

I'd like the dual gang power sockets to not be controlled by the switch on the fused switched spur.

If you wanted more than one socket on a spur, it would have to be a fused spur. However, you could replace the current switched FCU with an unswitched one, to address the issue you have mentioned. You could then run as many sockets as you wanted fromthe load side of that FCU, with the total 13A load limit.

Kind Regards, John