Soil pipe sound insulation

[z1lv1n4s]

Hi,

We live in a 9 storey building on the 8th floor. Above us there's a Penthouse flat who's bathroom soil pipe goes through the ceiling through our kitchen down to the ground level. The problem is that soil pipe is very noisy. I can easily hear the water running 7 meters away.

It was insulated with some mineral wool and a single layer of plasterboard. Which we recently removed to investigate a very annoying "tik tik tik tik" sound which usually starts when our neighbors start going to bed and are taking a shower. It seems that the "tikking" sounds happens where the joint is. It also seems that the noise is loudest where the bend is. Could it somehow amplify the noise?





It's a newly built flat so we're trying to get it fixed through our defects period. Problem is I think our defect team doesn't have a clue what they're doing. They're currently suggesting to add a double layer of Soundbloc plasterboard with mineral wool. Would that even work?

Now that we've removed the boxing and we can see the pipe I've noticed that there's an offset bend in the ceiling where there was no insulation at all. I'm not sure how they would be able to insulate it there without lowering the ceiling?

Can you see if it violates any of the building regulations? Could I possibly get this somehow inspected by an expert?

Thank you for any kind of answer. This is really driving us nuts..

 

[mointainwalker]

Which we recently removed to investigate a very annoying "tik tik tik tik" sound which usually starts when our neighbors start going to bed and are taking a shower

Sounds like an expansion noise caused by the hot water but I am surprised that the water could be hot enough to generate that effect. As for the amplification ...? Well, acoustics are extremely difficult to understand.

Could I possibly get this somehow inspected by an expert

Well of course you can. You just have to find the right one and be prepared to pay up.

Rather than let clueless builders have several goes at solving this and then the developers saying "we've tried everything, sorry" , it might be worthwhile to find a very competent "expert" ( you will need to do a lot of reasearch for this) and get a report with suggestions and then present that to the builders for them to do .

That apart, looking at the pics, it seems that the pipe is in contact with the framing for the plasterboard which is bad. The pipe should be isolated from the structure of your apartment as far as possible as any contact will transmit noise.

They're currently suggesting to add a double layer of Soundbloc plasterboard with mineral wool. Would that even work?

Any extra mass will attenuate the noise but it will be a matter of increments. It will not be totally silenced and I can't see that will be possible - under any circumstances - without taking up a totally disproportionate amount of space.

If you want to take the time to look on this forum for how people deal with noise problems, you will see that they are difficult and eat space, although noise through walls/floors are the most common types. This is probably the first water noise for a long time.

 

[Nige F]

Which we recently removed to investigate a very annoying "tik tik tik tik" sound which usually starts when our neighbors start going to bed and are taking a shower

Sounds like an expansion noise caused by the hot water but I am surprised that the water could be hot enough to generate that effect. . This is probably the first water noise for a long time.

It`s actually very common for a soil pipe to expand/contract enough to make the noise IF it`s touching some part of the building structure . I used to find the chippies had cut bits of 4x2 dead tight against the pipe - a good soaking with WD40 would allow the pipe to move quietly . Expert, what expert Never mind how expensive/ posh a building is - it`s the details that are lost to the new generation of "tradesmen" - Like putting that acess plug on the soil pipe ( the big one near the floor) ON the 8th. floor . I`ll bet all the plumbers were Gas Safe + had their CSCS cards and full PEP

 

[HERTS P&D]

As Nige says, check that nothing is toching the soil pipe.

Leave for a week once any timber work or brick work has been removed. (To prove it is not making a noise.)

Then fill with insulation, and then re-board with 2 sheets of 12mm plaster board.

Andy

 

[z1lv1n4s]

It`s actually very common for a soil pipe to expand/contract enough to make the noise IF it`s touching some part of the building structure . I used to find the chippies had cut bits of 4x2 dead tight against the pipe - a good soaking with WD40 would allow the pipe to move quietly . Expert, what expert Never mind how expensive/ posh a building is - it`s the details that are lost to the new generation of "tradesmen" - Like putting that acess plug on the soil pipe ( the big one near the floor) ON the 8th. floor . I`ll bet all the plumbers were Gas Safe + had their CSCS cards and full PEP

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry I'm a very unqualified person trying not to get cheated by the builders. Could you help me understand some of the things you've said?

The pipe is holded by a metal ring which has rubber on the inside. The ring is then attached to a brick wall behind the pipe. Does that count for "touching part of building structure"? I don't see how it touches anything else otherwise.

Also what do you mean about the plug? Is there a missing plug anywhere? What is it's purpose? It would be good for me to know as it helps me build my case against the builders.

Thanks

 

[z1lv1n4s]

Then fill with insulation, and then re-board with 2 sheets of 12mm plaster board.

Thanks for your reply. Do you see that it could be a problem to reboard the bend itself without having to lower the ceiling? Are there any other ways to do it?[/quote]

 

[HERTS P&D]

Spray WD40 around the rubber ring holding the pipe in place.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Re-boarding will be straight up and down fixed to the metal studding. Also have a trap door to the access point on the bottom of the soil pipe.

Andy

 

[z1lv1n4s]

Re-boarding will be straight up and down fixed to the metal studding. Also have a trap door to the access point on the bottom of the soil pipe.

Yes I understand that. But there's also a bend at the top which goes atleast 20 -30cm to the right and then again up the ceiling. That would not be inside the metal studding and not plastered and therefore not insulated and could still cause noise?

 

[HERTS P&D]

Boarding would be done on the outside of the stud work, covering all of the pipe work.

Andy

 

[Nige F]

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry I'm a very unqualified person trying not to get cheated by the builders. Could you help me understand some of the things you've said?

The pipe is holded by a metal ring which has rubber on the inside. The ring is then attached to a brick wall behind the pipe. Does that count for "touching part of building structure"? I don't see how it touches anything else otherwise.

Also what do you mean about the plug? Is there a missing plug anywhere? What is it's purpose? It would be good for me to know as it helps me build my case against the builders.

Thanks

The metal / rubber ring is fine .Indeed you can`t see where something is touching - but if you have a look/listen when the noise is occuring , even pull the soil pipe about a bit ( it won`t hurt it) you will probably find the area . As to the access plug - not missing - but I mentioned this because it`s a pointless thing to put in on the 8th. floor of a block - yet someone has . It has no purpose there and was probably covered by the boarding anyway . It`s presence is not a problem , just a sign that people don`t know

 

[z1lv1n4s]

The metal / rubber ring is fine .Indeed you can`t see where something is touching - but if you have a look/listen when the noise is occuring , even pull the soil pipe about a bit ( it won`t hurt it) you will probably find the area.

I've tried doing that. To me it seems it's coming from where the joint with the bend is. How would one resolve it? Give it a shake? Remove the joint and spray some of that WD40 ?

Thanks

 

[mointainwalker]

Remove the joint and spray some of that WD40 ?

That's a bit risky unless you are absolutely, absolutely certain that there is nobody in the flat above you !

 

[z1lv1n4s]

That's a bit risky unless you are absolutely, absolutely certain that there is nobody in the flat above you !

Yes it's possible to arrange that. My concern is could it actually help.

 

[jeds]

All the above is good advice. If the tightening screw is accessible you might also try to release the clamp (the metal ring that holds the pipe to the wall) and lubricate the rubber surface against the pipe. Rubber can be very squeaky and is known to cause these expansion/contraction noises. I would use a non setting, non drying lubricant. Silicone grease would be ideal. WD40 is good stuff but it will dry out with time - admittedly probably quite a long time. If you can't release the clamp then do go WD40 because it will penetrate the joint better than anything else. If you can't separate the other potential touching surfaces so they definitely don't touch then lubricate those as well - silicone first if not WD40. Also use WD40 on the actual pipe joints but whatever you do don't try to take them apart.