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solid wooden floor nightmare

Discussion in 'Wood / Woodwork / Carpentry' started by daywalker, 9 Aug 2009.

  1. daywalker

    daywalker

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    Hi
    I am hoping that I can get some advice and help regarding my messed up solid floor,
    Had new kitchen extension the new kitchen area is 7.4m by 3m,the existing kitchen is 3m by 1.8m.
    The new kitchen floor is 22mm chipboard screwed to timber joists with concrete below.The old kitchen floor had quarry tiles which was removed and the soil dug up dpm and a new concrete floor laid(please dont ask me why it wasn't finished as the new floor!)
    Decided to have a solid timber floor 200mm wide by 20mm thick,oak very nice.the experienced builder laid it, by secret nails,after a while in the old kitchen it warped and came up,
    I did ask the builder to fix it or reimbursh me which he hasn't
    So I removed the top layer of concrete and laid 20mm chipboard and brought some new flooring the one in the old kitchen was all scrap.
    The flooring in the new kitchen hasn't moved but there are gaps and it squeaks.
    May I ask how do I fit the new flooring? would glue be better?
    Do I need underlayment?
    Should I remove the existing fllor and relay it?
    thanking you for your help
     
  2. ratman123

    ratman123

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    Possibly caused by moisture from the new concrete floor?

    Is the concrete floor level?

    If so then make sure the concrete is dry (approx 1mm per day to dry), then glue the oak down to the screed. I assume it is an engineered oak floor if it is 200mn wide, solid flooring will need nailing. In which case fix down 20mm of plywood, and nail the oak flooring to the plywood. Plywood has better nail holding power than chipboard.

    If the concrete is not level, use a levelling compound or use battens with packers to provide a level base, which you can nail fix the oak flooring to.
     
  3. WoodYouLike

    WoodYouLike

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    200mm wide solid oak in an area where there is more moist? That is asking for trouble no matter what you do.
    Either narrower solid boards or wood-engineered boards are suited in kitchens.
     
  4. daywalker

    daywalker

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    Hi,
    Thank you for the advice, the concrete is level and I have fixed 22mm chipboard should i change it for plywood?

    The floor is already laid in the new kitchen would cost too much to change it for narrow boards

    The floor is solid hardwood not engineered
     
  5. ratman123

    ratman123

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    How is the chipboard fixed down, or is it floated, if it is floated use a foam floor underlay.

    Solid boards that wide should be nailed, chipboard is rather weak for holding nails, so increase the fixing centres to 200mm (I'm slightly guessing here).

    Make sure the boards are the right Moisture content, they should be supplied at about 10%, but never assume. If you don't know and can't check (Any floor fitter who doesnt have a moisture meter should be suspect), leave them in the room to acclimatise for 2 weeks approx if you have any reason to think they are not at the right M%.

    As they are wide boards in an area where water may be spilled i would recomend laquering the boards, as opposed to oiling them, not strictly neccessary, but just don't spill any water on them otherwise.

    Normally you would just leave a 15mm perimiter gap around the room for movement, it may be worth leaving a 1/2mm gap between every board to allow for any movent if they pick up moisture (or 3mm every 7th board. If the boards are not dry enough though they could shrink, increasing this gap size, so again try and aim for 10% moisture content.
     
  6. daywalker

    daywalker

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    Hi,
    thank you for your response,
    the chipboard is screwed down, the new flooring has been stored flat in the old kitchen for over four weeks now.

    Would it be better if I nail and glue the flooring?
     
  7. WoodYouLike

    WoodYouLike

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    If still possible, although I still would not recommend that wide solid boards in this area, replace chipboard with ply.
    Two main reasons: nailing in chipboard is not recommended (due to the angle and force the chipboard could 'explode' leaving you with no grip at all for the nail) and on modern chipboard (moist repellent) modern adhesives hardly bond.

    Read this too: Solid Floors - between a rock and a hard place
     
  8. daywalker

    daywalker

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    Hi,

    would not be possible to replace the chipboard in the new kitchen, but can replace it in the old kitchen before I lay the floor.
    Still doesn't sort out my concerns lol
     
  9. woodenfloorfitter

    woodenfloorfitter

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    Run through this real quick - a few simple rules

    1) tape some polythene down over the concrete, leave it overnight preferably for 24 hours, if there is condensation on the polythene or the concrete is discoloured you have a damp problem. the sheet should be 1.5m square and taped all along each side causing a seal.

    2) did you leave your boarding in the room long enough to climatize, this can be important, some merchants also store the wood in there garages or sheds for months prior to delivery, this is not such a good idea

    3) try using the sheet adhesive to lay the floor, or a membrane over the plywood.

    4) has he left a sufficient gap all around, including around architraves and pipes

    5) how far apart are the fixing points for each board, should be around 25 - 30mm apart two - three per board

    6) you are fitting to a new extension? how has he fitting the skirting, and has he sealed the floor correctly
     
  10. daywalker

    daywalker

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    Hi woodenfloorfitter,

    will check for moisture again?

    skirting hasnt been fitted yet,

    just relayin new floor in old kitchen and some in new extension

    not sure what spacing the fixing are at?

    would it be easier if we spoke on the phone?
     
  11. WoodYouLike

    WoodYouLike

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    Taping poly down to measure moist is difficult and not recommended when there are already problems. Use proper equipment that gives you readings from below the surface.

    The 'fixing points' are the joints in a row of boards, boards should have their joints at least 30 - 40 cm apart from the neighbouring boards.
     
  12. DIYnot Local

    DIYnot Local

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