SPOTLIGHTS ALWAYS ON

[SIRDANIEL]

I have 3 mains powered spotlights in my kitchen. They were already installed when I moved into the house 20 years ago and were working fine untill the bulbs needed replacing some time back. But as I couldnt get them out I left them there until last week when I finally replaced them.

The problem is I couldnt switch them off!! I didnt change any wiring so I know I didnt get the switch cable mixed up with the live. All I did was change the bulbs! And I know the circuit was working a while back.

I changed the wall switch in case there was a problem with that, but to no effect.

This has got me stumped. Any ideas?

 

[THRIPSTER]

Readlines

You have probably wired the permanent live into the bulb side live connection - check your wiring.

 

[SIRDANIEL]

Readlines

You have probably wired the permanent live into the bulb side live connection - check your wiring.

I havnt changed any wiring. All I did was replace the bulbs. I was able to turn them on and off using the wall switch and it worked as it should do untill the bulbs eventually died. Now the wall switch doesnt turn them off and the new bulbs stay on permenantly even with the wall switch removed and the disconnected.

 

[Chri5]

The live is going direct to the light rather than via the switch. By removing the switch and it still staying on then the fault must be on the wiring or inside the fitting.

Isolate the circuit at the board, take the fitting off and see if there's a connector block. If so check for a wire that may have become loose and is allowing the live to energise the fitting without the switch.

It is possible that your handling of the fitting when replacing the bulbs has caused the problem. When you mentioned you couldn't get the old blown bulbs out, how did you manage it in the end?

 

[SIRDANIEL]

The live is going direct to the light rather than via the switch. By removing the switch and it still staying on then the fault must be on the wiring or inside the fitting.

Isolate the circuit at the board, take the fitting off and see if there's a connector block. If so check for a wire that may have become loose and is allowing the live to energise the fitting without the switch.

It is possible that your handling of the fitting when replacing the bulbs has caused the problem. When you mentioned you couldn't get the old blown bulbs out, how did you manage it in the end?

The only way I could remove the bulbs were to forcibly push against them with the end of my fingers and turn at the wrist. The bulbs were "screw in" and they eventually turned. Very much like one would tighten a screw first in order to loosen it up.

I checked that out. I removed the connector block and isolated teh old spotlight fitings and wired in a new spotlight directly to the mains cable, thinking as you did that there maybe a loose cable in the connector block, but they also stayed on.

This I did as a last resort by the way.

So I know that the switch isnt the problem, the connector block and spotlight cables arent the problem. This leaves the main feed. But without ripping out the the ceiling I have no way of locating where the cable comes from.

So it looks as though I will have to disopense with the spotlights in this area of the kitchen. Am I correct in believing it is safe to add a connector block and insulating tape to the live feed that originally fed the old spotlisghts and simply isolate the cable?

 

[Chri5]

You shouldn't just tape up a live circuit and loose it in the cavity.

I'd be tempted to prove the switch wiring with a continuity test.

Then I'd rebuild the connector block and see if it gets sorted. I assume you undertand that the LNE at the fitting has the neutral direct to the light and that the switch wire takes the live down to the switch and back up as the live for the fitting. if it's loop in / out you will have another cable that simply extends the LNE to the next fitting.

 

[SIRDANIEL]

You shouldn't just tape up a live circuit and loose it in the cavity.

I'd be tempted to prove the switch wiring with a continuity test.

Then I'd rebuild the connector block and see if it gets sorted. I assume you undertand that the LNE at the fitting has the neutral direct to the light and that the switch wire takes the live down to the switch and back up as the live for the fitting. if it's loop in / out you will have another cable that simply extends the LNE to the next fitting.

The cable runs along the roof cavity, behind a wall that had been tiled over and down to the light switch. The LNE at the ceiling is the only cable I can see. So without removing the ceiling I cant see what its attached to or where it comes from

If I test the switch wiring and its dead, then I must assume its been damaged somehow. But as we cant get to it without ripping the tiles of first, I dont know how it could have become damaged. I havent done any DIY in this area.

So how do I make the LNE safe at the light fitting end? I thought inserting the LNE into a connector block and binding them in insulation tape would have been a safe way of doing it?

By the way thanks for your help in this

 

[Chri5]

There's likely to be a junction box somewhere, most sparks wouldn't provide a jb inside a sealed ceiling. If any of the area is over lapped by 1st floor rooms and you can access those areas I'd investigate from the 1st floor down.

The LNE feed will come from another light position and you should attempt to find the light position and discon the cable there.

Failing that, 'red' tape the cable in a block connector and leave a clear live warning on it.

 

[SIRDANIEL]

There's likely to be a junction box somewhere, most sparks wouldn't provide a jb inside a sealed ceiling. If any of the area is over lapped by 1st floor rooms and you can access those areas I'd investigate from the 1st floor down.

The LNE feed will come from another light position and you should attempt to find the light position and discon the cable there.

Failing that, 'red' tape the cable in a block connector and leave a clear live warning on it.

The kitchen is a flat roof single storey extension so I cant get at it from above. Theres another light fitting on the other side of the kitchen which is a double storey which I am hoping to replace with a 4 spotlight fitting, so two of the spots can light the side of the kitchen where I am having this problem. If a loop doesn't run from there I think I am scuppered.

I have already inserted the bad connection into a block connector so will red tape it with a warning as you advised.

Thanks again. This was beginning to worry me.