Ssssssshhhhhh, don't mention Reform.

[Deleted member 323070]

No need - Reform have a plan

You'd best explain the rules about avoiding collisions at sea, and the rules governing the intentional sinking of vessels, to them.

 

[motorbiking]

You'd best explain the rules about avoiding collisions at sea, and the rules governing the intentional sinking of vessels, to them.

lawful excuse - next.

Otherwise all the marineras and tugboat captains would be prosecuted.

Look a crime has been committed:

This tug has deliberately collided with this ship

 

[Deleted member 323070]

nonsense.

On the one hand you want to correctly argue that a ship that is full of illegals that have been rounded up and sent to France requires French cooperation and at the same time claim that the UK has no right to stop a boat full of illegals doing the same.

An inflatable boat full of illegal immigrants, that have paid people traffickers, is specifically defined as not innocent. Article 19, 2 (g).

"loading or unloading of any .... person contrary to the ... immigration ... and regulations of the coastal State" is an activity that would render a passage through the territorial sea not innocent.

Apply a bit of common sense here.

If a boat is loading or unloading persons, they have reached land, i.e. UK, where they immediately apply for asylum.

Additionally, the UN Charter gives protection to refugees intending to apply for asylum.

You need to take into consideration all regulations, charters and agreements, not rely on your misinterpretation of just one, which suits your ideology.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

lawful excuse - next.

Otherwise all the marineras and tugboat captains would be prosecuted.

Look a crime has been committed:

This tug has deliberately collided with this ship

Resort to absurdity again.

 

[motorbiking]

"loading or unloading of any .... person contrary to the ... immigration ... and regulations of the coastal State" is an activity that would render a passage through the territorial sea not innocent.

Apply a bit of common sense here.

If a boat is loading or unloading persons, they have reached land, i.e. UK, where they immediately apply for asylum.

Additionally, the UN Charter gives protection to refugees intending to apply for asylum.

You need to take into consideration all regulations, charters and agreements, not rely on your misinterpretation of just one, which suits your ideology.

Nobody is arguing that illegals who have made it to the UK can be rounded up and sent back to France.
Nobody is a refugee or asylum seeker until they have presented themselves and made their claim. They are welcome to contact the French authorities and make their claim before they set off, in order to have the protection you describe. Unfortunately there is case law that says subsequent immigration offences are not protected.

 

[Deleted member 323070]

Nobody is a refugee or asylum seeker until they have presented themselves and made their claim. They are welcome to contact the French authorities and make their claim before they set off, in order to have the protection you describe.

The UN Charter gives them protection, and it also gives them a choice of where and how they claim asylum.

The only way of claiming asylum in UK is to be in UK.
The only way to arrive in UK is by normal modes of transport which requires a passport and a visa, or by irregular routes.
The UK also states where applications can be made, i.e at a port of arrival.

International Law:
The 1951 Refugee Convention provides the legal basis for asylum claims and allows individuals to seek protection in any country that has signed the convention.
No Obligation to First Safe Country:
There is no requirement in the Refugee Convention or EU law for asylum seekers to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach.
UK Specifics:
In the UK, asylum claims must be made at a "designated place" which includes ports of entry, Asylum Intake Units, and removal centers.

No amount of squirming and misinterpretation of individual pieces of legislation can overcome the whole consideration of the number of regulations, charters and agreements.

Killing isn't always murder. There are numerous other pieces of legislation that are relevant and must be taken into account. So quoting a single piece of legislation to claim that black is black, or white is white, is ludicrous.

 

[fillyboy]

I note with amusement that Biker continues to rip Tom a new one.

 

[Notch7]

No need - Reform have a plan

Reform have a plan that is taking migrants back to France.

Which can’t be done, it’s complete bolox

It’s the bolox you’ve been pushing for weeks.


Come on Motorbiking FFS stop lying

 

[motorbiking]

Reform have a plan that is taking migrants back to France.

Which can’t be done, it’s complete bolox

It’s the bolox you’ve been pushing for weeks.


Come on Motorbiking FFS stop lying

A dishonest post from Notch because he’s lost the argument. Nobody has been discussing rounding up illegals and taking them back to france.

 

[Notch7]

Are you suggesting that a UK flagged vessel needs permission from French authorities, to enter French waters and rescue a vessel/people in distress and take them back to France

On the very rare occasions when migrants boats are in immediate distress, that is possible.

It has happened once this year….and it was a joint operation with France.

At no time will a UK Border force vessel be allowed to,pick up migrants and drop them at a French port with out prior agreement / coordination


so yet another Motorbiking scenario proven to be bolox

 

[Notch7]

A dishonest post from Notch because he’s lost the argument. Nobody has been discussing rounding up illegals and taking them back to france.

stop lying

You said “Reform have a plan”

Reforms plan is rounding up illegals and taking them back to France.


You think if you carry on posting lies enough you will end up winning. You won’t.

No have some dignity admit you are a liar and stop embarrassing yourself, you are being a brat

 

[Notch7]

You just made that up. You're arguing that UNCLOS article 98 which places a duty on the state to require ships to rescue, also allows the state to prevent it. If Article 25 (its 25 btw not 19) allows the coastal state to prevent rescue, then there is no point in including article 98.

UNCLOS Article 98 requires them to assist. Article 19, 2 does not include Search and Rescue in accordance with SOLAS Reg 33 and and UNCLOS Article 98 as passage that is not innocent. It would be a bit stupid if it did.

WRONG

 

[Notch7]

No that is a nonsense argument invented by you. If I am given the job of keeping them out of UK waters and paid accordingly, I'm not going to bring them to UK shores, just because its dinner time

WRONG

 

[Highway Man]

On the very rare occasions when migrants boats are in immediate distress, that is possible.

It has happened once this year….and it was a joint operation with France.

At no time will a UK Border force vessel be allowed to,pick up migrants and drop them at a French port with out prior agreement / coordination


so yet another Motorbiking scenario proven to be bolox

Your avoiding my challenge to you. So come on rent a gob, lets see proof of these wild allegations of yours against me and lets see who is telling the truth here. Oh and the Open University doesn't count. You said you had a degree in production and furniture and I say I have a degree in computer science from a real University. Not that I am bragging but sick and tired of the lies being spread.

 

[Notch7]

I note with amusement that Biker continues to rip Tom a new one.

I note you lack the intelligence to realise Motorbiking is now on about his 100th scenario.

Motorbiking is WRONG