Staircase for existing loft conversion

[shamzz]

Hi,

I'm after a bit of advice.

A number of years ago my parents had a loft conversion done. They didn't get planning permission or get building regs approval. At the time a pull down loft ladder was put in.

Now we'd like to get a proper staircase put in, and have started to ring round to get a few quotes (not had anyone round yet).

I'm in a bit of dilemma though.... some builders/joiners have said they won't come round to have a look at building a staircase because I don't have planning permission for the existing loft. This got me thinking (in terms of any future sale or insurance invalidation issues), should I try and get my existing loft conversion council approved?

I think I can apply for a retrospective planning permission (though I have no plans or paperwork for the existing loft - which was internal only, didn't affect exterior of the building and has a couple of skylight windows).

But getting retrospective building regs will be a pain (I've been told) as whoever agrees to check it will want to rip everything up to have a look? BUt this may be the right time to do it if I'm going to commission someone to build a staircase into it (which may involve some ripping up anyway)?

Many thanks for any advice or thoughts!

 

[Richard C]

Loft Conversions can now be done under Personal Development Rights (PDR) & no longer require Planning Permission under most circumstances. I’m not entirely sure where you stand with a pre-existing one that was never declared but my guess is it’s probably your good luck. This may help;
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/miniguides/loft/loft_conversion.html

Building Regs. is another issue though & although the conversion is historical, any work you do on it now (like a new staircase) must be compliant. In reality, this is likely to throw up a whole host of other issues on what’s already there with regards to compliance such as insulation, ventilation, fire & access etc. & there may well be others as I’m not a loft conversion expert. You would probably have done better to post in the “Building Regs & Planning Permission” forum but most of the regular contributors tend to browse the forums like me so I’m sure you’ll get further input. You will almost certainly be asked to produce relevant compliance paperwork for a loft conversion at point of sale. If you leave it as is with a loft ladder, it’s really only an up market storage area but by upgrading the access, you will actually make matters worse as the conversion may then be regarded as unauthorised building works. If you really want to legalise (regularise) the lost conversion, I would talk to your LABC first as the current BR requirements may mean you will virtually have to start again; but that may be worth it, depending on what additioanal work you have to do.

 

[shamzz]

Thanks for the input Richard, and for the link.. that's some useful info

I'd like to get the Building Regs issues sorted out, but of course will depend on how much it costs to sort it out. I have a couple of builders coming round to have a look over the next week, will see what they think/suggest.

If I contact the LABC and get an inspector round to look at it and give some advice.... and they confirm that it is not up to spec for Buildings Regs. Can they force me to re-do it all (if I want to leave it as it is, for example)?

Thanks!

 

[Richard C]

Thanks for the input Richard, and for the link.. that's some useful info

I'd like to get the Building Regs issues sorted out, but of course will depend on how much it costs to sort it out. I have a couple of builders coming round to have a look over the next week, will see what they think/suggest.

Be careful; make sure you talk to someone who knows about this type of work & who will advise you accordingly. Many “so called” small builders won’t necessarily know or care about Building Regulations or how to comply with them & may just stuff in a new staircase; you will still need a submission notice & Building Regs approval for it to be classed as authorised building work. The important thing to remember is that ultimate responsibility to comply with BR’s is on you & not your builder; many just want your money.

If I contact the LABC and get an inspector round to look at it and give some advice.... and they confirm that it is not up to spec for Buildings Regs.

They will offer advice if you gather all the facts together & make an appointment at your LABC but they don’t do “on site” consultancy as far as I’m aware.

Can they force me to re-do it all (if I want to leave it as it is, for example)?

If you leave it as it is with loft ladder access then it’s basically elegant loft storage area so, no; but you wouldn’t be able could to call it a bona fide loft extension when you sell up. If you start to add a proper staircase, then LABC are likely to treat the whole exercise as a new conversion & insist it complies with current Building Regs which may amount to re-doing it all; I would discuss what you propose with them first before doing anything.

 

[jsp7]

hi I am very interested as I am about to buy a house with the same problem, is it best to stay clear?
would appreciate any advice guys as beig female have no idea about any of this
many thanks for any help

jane

 

[Richard C]

If the price s right & it’s not being sold as a property with a bona fide loft extension then the decision is yours but that’s assuming your lender will advance the money on what may be a property with unauthorised building works. No offence to the OP on this thread but I also believe it gives an indication to either ignorance or total indifference with regard to legislation designed to protect & keep safe the gullible, innocent & inexperienced; but that side of things is not a problem for me. I would be concerned about what other problems may lay in store, particularly with regard to any work having safety implications. Indemnity insurance at point of sale used to cover such things but, as far as I know, that is no longer an available option. Some unauthorised work may completely invalidate insurance on the property in the event it was considered to been a major contributory factor to the cause of a future claim.

Personally, I would want a discount large enough & then some to rip it out & undertake the whole works again in compliance with regulations. You need to get some professional advice (& I don’t mean a house buyers survey), go into it fully aware & with a view + enough cash to putting things right; eyes wide open!

 

[geraint]

with no informationof the age of the house and the age of the conversion, i feel the information is incorrect. whatever you might want to add. the existing structure might and well maybe give no reason for any notification.

 

[big-all]

when you measure the floor thickness do you get around 10" or 6" between floor and celing underneath""

 

[mac391]

95% of all loft conversions in the UK have no planning permission at all. I read this on a .gov webpage not too long ago, if i remember where, i'll let you know.

Building Reg's is obviously different and Richard c's advice sounds spot on.

Hi,

I'm after a bit of advice.

A number of years ago my parents had a loft conversion done. They didn't get planning permission or get building regs approval. At the time a pull down loft ladder was put in.

Now we'd like to get a proper staircase put in, and have started to ring round to get a few quotes (not had anyone round yet).

I'm in a bit of dilemma though.... some builders/joiners have said they won't come round to have a look at building a staircase because I don't have planning permission for the existing loft. This got me thinking (in terms of any future sale or insurance invalidation issues), should I try and get my existing loft conversion council approved?

I think I can apply for a retrospective planning permission (though I have no plans or paperwork for the existing loft - which was internal only, didn't affect exterior of the building and has a couple of skylight windows).

But getting retrospective building regs will be a pain (I've been told) as whoever agrees to check it will want to rip everything up to have a look? BUt this may be the right time to do it if I'm going to commission someone to build a staircase into it (which may involve some ripping up anyway)?

Many thanks for any advice or thoughts!

 

[Richard C]

with no informationof the age of the house and the age of the conversion, i feel the information is incorrect. whatever you might want to add. the existing structure might and well maybe give no reason for any notification.

Can you explain why you "feel the information is incorrect" ?

Regardless of the age of the property & weather or not the existing work was done many years ago without PP (which in most cases is not now required), ANY notifyable building work you undertake (associated with the conversion or otherwise), must comply with current Building Regulations & in many casses is notifyable. Putting in an additional staircase is, in itself, reason for notification; replacing the loft access ladder with conventional stair case means it will cease to be just an upmarket loft space and may now be determined as a habitable space, in which case it will become subject to BR’s as if the conversion had only just taken place.

 

[gorgeousgordy]

geraints entire statement makes no sense but I havent seen one of his yet that does