Steel beam ties to masonry

[iwanttodiy]

Hi guys

I’ll be getting 2 steel columns installed for a 6m beam. One will have a pier of masonry on the corner of the existing building. The other will be right in the corner, SE specced it to be 1 leaf of brick + 203 steel. This is aimed to make is as flush to the new extension wall as possible (300mm cavity wall).

Now the question is: SE haven’t specified how the brickwork is tied to the steels, nor are any of the builders making comments on tying the brickwork to steels.

Is it me or is this process relatively obvious? Hence why it’s being omitted by 2 professions?

As per my research, it doesn’t seem to be a simple process given the availability of materials in local builders warehouses.

I would anticipate
1 - welding angled ties into the steel at each course of Block/brick (if so we would need a specialist welder on site)

2 - drilling holes into the steel to attach straps ( would imagine this is not structurally sufficient, and if so would have been factored into the SE designs )

3 - using a clip on brace. Not sold in any of the builders warehouses. Can’t even get them off eBay ( so would also imagine builders will also have trouble getting hold of them )

Considering these factors, I wouldn’t have thought it would be a detail anyone should have omitted, especially the SE considering he’s even factored in where we may need to notch joists, use joist hangers etc. My worry is there is an assumption everything will be left untied to the column. And if so, it doesn’t seem structurally sufficient?

 

[^woody^]

Fish tail ties and Hilti nails.

Crap builders and SE

 

[tony1851]

Ancon do a range of hammer-on and bolt-on fixings for tying masonry to steel columns, but they are specialist and
unlikely to be stocked by most builders' merchants. You will probably have to resort to some site welding and drilling.

 

[iwanttodiy]

Seems simple enough,

I guess costing wise, will just need one of these for the day (if builder doesn’t have one) https://www.hss.com/hire/p/rapid-cartridge-hammer, Nails and ties.

Maybe it is simple enough of a process to omit and I’m just over thinking it. I will need to check with the SE if they considered these to be fastened to the columns as part of the calcs, and challenge the fitter if this is what they anticipated doing.

I was actually thinking using a product like this would be less invasive, https://www.ancon.co.uk/products/wa...gs/other-restraint-fixings/ties-for-steelwork. But of course, local supply is an issue.

 

[iwanttodiy]

Hah, exactly my thoughts Tony, I like the idea of the product, but unable to find a supply.

Considering the cost of doing what woody suggested, (assuming it’s the traditional approach most builders take), I don’t think it’s necessarily worth the effort to source those ancon hammer on ties.

I guess something to also confirm with building control what they want us to do as well.

 

[John D v2.0]

our SE specified exactly the type and spacing of wall ties to be used in the normal walls, tying existing into a new, and even an overhanging wall that was to be externally insulated. That's because the SE is responsible for designing a structurally stable building. I'd expect in a more unusual buildup it would be even more important.
Maybe an experienced builder would know typical ways of solving this problem, but my opinion is the SE should have specified all the details. The builder in theory should just build as specified.
The only thing to watch is the SE will specify the safest thing, not necessarily the easiest thing. The builder will have an ide about what's easier.

 

[Notch7]

Would a furfix wall starter work?

 

[iwanttodiy]

Maybe, but still need some way of fastening to the steel beams. If we drill into the steel beams, my worry is it will reduce the capable load, hence why I think the SE should have calculated the beams with fasteners in mind.

 

[Footsoldier888]

On the house behind me they are building a highly glazed extension with a steel frame providing the structural support. I was wondering about this same issue. What they did was to encase the whole thing in wood and they used shot fired fixings.

Good luck kenny.