Stop and Search powers to be made permanent

[SirGalahad]

Draconian stop and search powers are to be made permanent under Boris Johnson’s latest crime crackdown.

So-called “Section 60” powers, which allow police to search in an area without having reasonable grounds for suspicion against an individual, will be made easier as part of the “Beating Crime” plan unveiled on Tuesday.

Before the RWR cheer this on. This extra power will only be abused.

Perhaps an unintended consequence will be more claims and complaints against the police - thus clogging up the courts and raising costs of policing.

 

[sxturbo]

not really sure whats wrong and right really.

i think on the face of it, it's a good idea, people dont go round shouting "i'm a criminal", so the only thing to do is follow patterns of suspicion.

on the flip side i can see it getting abused by police chiefs putting targets on stop and search, i.e an officer needs to have done 100 stop and searches a month, this will mean the system gets abused.


the world does seem to be getting more and more star wars empire, what with possible britcoin, all currency must be exchanged for britcoin credits for the sake of the empire, waiting for there to be check points upon entry to cities and towns, maybe even be droids roaming the streets in the not to distant future. resources getting scarce, prices of items ever growing, flying cars maybe on the horizon too.... jeff bezos and other billionaires fighting to be pioneers of space travel

 

[Notch7]

increasing stop and search = dog whistle politics

this will only cause more division.

stop and search is only useful when the community is on board -as soon as you lose trust of the locals you lose intelligence and cooperation.

stop and search only works as part of a c=package of measures.

but hey the right wing love it

 

[SirGalahad]

not really sure whats wrong and right really.

The officer instead of working off suspicion and local knowledge, information can simply work off their bias or prejudice with no recourse.

Trust is built up. Instead of spending money in upskilling police officers and recruiting more- a cheaper and populist approach is to give them more powers.

Look at how many powers police officers have in poorer countries - you think that has solved or lowered crime?

Crime has been falling since 2002 - there are spikes but the UK is a safe place to live. Those who stoke fear stoke division.

 

[SirGalahad]

but hey the right wing love it

Until they are the ones getting stopped and like in the US they turned on the Police.

RWR is a mental health problem.

 

[Vinty]

The officer instead of working off suspicion and local knowledge, information can simply work off their bias or prejudice with no recourse

There has to be bias of some kind to solve crime.
If most drug dealers and knife carriers in your local area fit a certain profile e.g. young and from a particular ethnicity, then that is the group you target.
After all, if people are being mugged by young criminals on bicycles, would you target pensioners on disability scooters for stop and search.

 

[Brigade77]

Gee, I don't know. I guess if you done nuffink wrong then you got nuffink to fear . . .

 

[Diver Fred]

'Tis difficult; in the UK policing has been by consent but today that is disappearing.
Lack of knowledge of neighbours and their children, lack of respect and (self) discipline by both parents and the children and the parents always say that little Johnny/gilly wouldn't do that.

Somehow community needs to be rebuilt but how? May be talking to neighbours is the right start and a lot less of 'I know my rights' will help.

 

[Lower]

The officer instead of working off suspicion and local knowledge, information can simply work off their bias or prejudice with no recourse.

Trust is built up. Instead of spending money in upskilling police officers and recruiting more- a cheaper and populist approach is to give them more powers.

Look at how many powers police officers have in poorer countries - you think that has solved or lowered crime?

Crime has been falling since 2002 - there are spikes but the UK is a safe place to live. Those who stoke fear stoke division.

My understanding is that the Section 60 powers are only available to be used in specific circumstances for a limited time and only when authorised by a senior police officer.

I would strongly argue that they would only be used when suspicion and local knowledge or information is available. Its not a random stop and search tool to be used at will by any officer.

Why must there always be the automatic assumption that powers will be misused? Police today are far more sensitive to their own prejudice and bias, and the prevalence of body worn cameras only increases the scrutiny that a police officer will fall under if accusations of unlawful actions are made.

My understanding is that crime is not falling in certain areas of the country, and specifically drug, knife and gang related crimes are on the increase and action needs to be taken.

 

[JP_]

example given somewhere today, was when a crime has been committed in an area but no description of suspect, e.g somebody seen with knife - this allows the police to just stop and search anybody they want without needing somebody to match a specific description.

I think that is a sensible thing.

Yes, it will probably be abused. But tackling the abuse by racist cops is a different matter (and something which is finally being addressed), we also need to tackle the abuse by dealers and other criminals - this affects communities far more than the inconvenience of stop and search.

 

[SirGalahad]

My understanding is that the Section 60 powers are only available to be used in specific circumstances for a limited time and only when authorised by a senior police officer.

I would strongly argue that they would only be used when suspicion and local knowledge or information is available. Its not a random stop and search tool to be used at will by any officer.

Why must there always be the automatic assumption that powers will be misused? Police today are far more sensitive to their own prejudice and bias, and the prevalence of body worn cameras only increases the scrutiny that a police officer will fall under if accusations of unlawful actions are made.

My understanding is that crime is not falling in certain areas of the country, and specifically drug, knife and gang related crimes are on the increase and action needs to be taken.

Section 60.

The powers were restricted in 2014 by Theresa May when she was home secretary so they could only be used if police believed there was an immediate violent threat, during a limited number of hours.

Those restrictions were eased by Priti Patel in 2019 to allow police to carry out searches 24 hours a day and on grounds of possible violence. These changes will be made permanent under the government’s crime-fighting proposals.

You can always assume powers given with little oversight will be abused. Look at the way the PPE contracts were handed out and the VIP lane.

Do all officers wear body cameras?

If you want to tackle crime, why close the youth centres and defund so many of the services that could be used to tackle crime. Giving the Police a bigger stick is dealing with it after the event - not before.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Gee, I don't know. I guess if you done nuffink wrong then you got nuffink to fear . . .

Other than being stopped and searched and questioned again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again 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[Mottie]

Captain. If you were a police officer, who would you stop and check and why?

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Perhaps an unintended consequence will be more claims and complaints against the police - thus clogging up the courts and raising costs of policing.

Oh - dont worry about that, its easily fixed - theyll just remove the ability to complain about/claim from the police - effectively just make them immune from legal challenge.

Dont think they wouldnt.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Captain. If you were a police officer, who would you stop and check and why?

People about who I had reasonable grounds for suspicion.