strange windows

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wolfman1

Hi all
I am in the process of moving and have a fair bit of work to do, including fitting 3 new windows. Never done it before, but looks easy enough, just need to get the right size?
So i had a closer look, the windows fitted are aluminium type in a wooden frame and against the brickwork, just in front of the window is a flat piece of wood with a rounded edge! Also the window appears to be set back a long way, my question is what is the flat piece there for? (on the windows that have already been done, this has been replaced with a similar upvc piece) When i take my measurements should i go from the brickwork or do i have to put this piece in first? There is a possibility that the house is a timber frame (according to ep certificate) but i have not verified this, valuation survey says brick construction? built in 1970's and is chalet style. I don't know if this makes any difference to how the windows are fitted, also what would the extra piece be called, should i order with the window?

Thank you
 
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itd be in your interest to post a photo of the window. Its hard to understand exactly what you mean.
 
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Hi all
I am in the process of moving and have a fair bit of work to do, including fitting 3 new windows. Never done it before, but looks easy enough, just need to get the right size?
Be aware that what your doing is subject to Building Regulations & is “notifyable work” unless you use a FENSA (or similar) registered installer. You say you are selling up, if you can’t produce the necessary compliance certification to your solicitor, you will have problems with any sale.
 
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wolfman1

Thank you, I am going up to the house tomorow evening so i will get a picture or two also to find out the construction as the valuation surveyor says it is brick and the energy performance certificate says it is timber framed.
I am a little annoyed about the replacement windows being notifyable, if i were to do this myself i understand i would have to get a local authority building inspector to check the work and that the windows have to meet a certain thermal criteria, so i wouldn't be able to change like for like (or would I) how would i notify the local authority, and how would i pass the test, ie how do i prove what the windows are and if they comply and do they have to be fittted in a certain way, how much does it cost? of course i could just replace and when selling time comes lie about who and when they were fitted (I don't have any problem with this, as I think the rules are a load of old tosh) anyway, enough ranting about Tony B's legacies.
 
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Hey Wolfie; we seem to be doing a “double take” here; this post seems to be a little at odds with your other one! :confused: :LOL:

If you really want advice, I am prepared to give it to you but not if your just going to tell me my advice is rubbish; over to you matey ;)
 
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wolfman1

No, not at all. The advice is great, I just have a problem with authority!
I have gained much from the two threads. And was only giving my opinion based on my experiences.
It also sparked a question, a mate of mine fitted a wooden window into my other house,so a like for like swap, except i fitted a doulble glazed unit, i guess i would not be able to do this now as it wouldn't pass the building code, I have to say he made a mighty fine job and it was an improvement on the rotten window that was there for little cost (cost 170 quid, compared to upvc between 600 and 1000).
I now hate authority even more, and will read the regulations, if only to find a loophole.
 
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wolfman1

So i read them, no real loopholes, but i notice this applies to glazing, so if you break a window you have to involve building control to replace the glass!
If i were to diy the windows and apply for certificate, how would i prove the windows meet the correct U value, assuming they are fitted with no gaps, the regs do not cover the quality of the actual installation.
 
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U-value for replacement windows must be 2.0 or less for wooden and upvc windows. this is for the whole assembly.
Or if using non-certified frames, U-value for the glass must be 1.2 or less. Means using a soft-coat low-e glass not a hard-coat like pilkington K for example.
Buliding control will inspect, if you want to do it yourself ow with a non-FENSA installer then best speak to them (free!) to run through the whole process.

In answer to your first post, if on the inside, wooden trim can be added after the window frame is installed to hide the reveal (exposed edge of the wall) or the gap between the window and plaster. You could plaster this as an alternative. Use flexible filler where it meets the window frame.
If it's on the outside it could be the sill? Also added after sometimes.
 
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It also sparked a question, a mate of mine fitted a wooden window into my other house,so a like for like swap, except i fitted a doulble glazed unit, i guess i would not be able to do this now as it wouldn't pass the building code,
Er no; unless you follow Squowse advice but I don’t know about wood frames personally.

I have to say he made a mighty fine job and it was an improvement on the rotten window that was there for little cost (cost 170 quid, compared to upvc between 600 and 1000).
Where are you getting those prices from; price will vary with size but a good quality window should only cost between £250 - £400, doors around £450 - £600 & large pair of French doors around £900.

I now hate authority even more, and will read the regulations, if only to find a loophole.
Such is life; why fight it, the stress will only give you hypertension & ulcers.

So i read them, no real loopholes, but i notice this applies to glazing, so if you break a window you have to involve building control to replace the glass!
No you don’t; it only applies to replacement windows (including the frames), just replacing the glass is classed as maintenance so no BC involvement.

If i were to diy the windows and apply for certificate, how would i prove the windows meet the correct U value, assuming they are fitted with no gaps, the regs do not cover the quality of the actual installation.
As long as you keep away from ropey E bay bargains & buy from a reputable manufacturer or supplier, I don’t know of any window manufacturer who’s windows do not meet current BR’s. As long as you install them correctly, have safety glass where required, comply with fire escape & ventilation (no worse than it was before) & fit the glass the correct way around (although I believe this actually makes little difference) you should get your compliance certificate – LABC inspection cost is around £100 regardless, I believe, of the number of windows.
 
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wolfman1

The prices were a while back,(10 yrs) but it was a 8 foot x 4 foot window fitted.
I recall having a window company round who offered 50% off, he measured up and came up with a price of £9000 to do the house, i said, bit steep but with 50% off it would be getting somewhere close, to which he replied "that is with 50% off" so his list price for a 3 bed semi with one bay window and the rest nothing special was £18000, obviously he left without a sale.

Are you sure about the glass replacement? the bit I read stated (i think) that it was applicable to replacement glazing, maintenance could be argued for replacing a window frame.

Wooden frames can be used, but the asembly must meet the uv level or less as per upvc, metal frame can also be used but has a higher limit.
 
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The prices were a while back,(10 yrs) but it was a 8 foot x 4 foot window fitted. I recall having a window company round who offered 50% off, he measured up and came up with a price of £9000 to do the house, i said, bit steep but with 50% off it would be getting somewhere close, to which he replied "that is with 50% off" so his list price for a 3 bed semi with one bay window and the rest nothing special was £18000, obviously he left without a sale.
He’s avin a larf, I even uplifted the prices I gave you by a little; I had Rahau units fitted 3 years ago to our large 3 bed detached - 9 windows of various sizes some are 1800mm wide & some are toughened, 1 back door, 2 sets of French doors 1800mm wide. Total cost was £5,100 including VAT, fitting, FENSA certification & disposing of all the old units.

As I said, always go for small, local companies not the large nationals, they are cheaper, often for the same units (virtually no one makes their own windows anymore) & their reputation rests on the all important quality of installation. Get as many quotes as you can (I started off with 9), make sure your comparing like with like & let them all know they are in competition, that you’ve done your "homework" & have a pretty good idea what you’re talking about.

Are you sure about the glass replacement? the bit I read stated (i think) that it was applicable to replacement glazing, maintenance could be argued for replacing a window frame.
Yes; it’s actually the other way around. If the work amounts to no more than, for example, replacing broken glass, replacing a rotten sash (opening parts) in the window frame, or some rotten sections of the main frame members then you don’t need approval; replacing the complete frame would amount to a replacing the window so you would in that case.
 
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wolfman1

yes the prices were steep, thats why i replaced with wooden frame, as for the quote on my other house this was with a very well known company who advertise with a lot of shouting, if i can get the three windows replaced on the house i am buying for an average of £300 each, fitted then i'll save myself the trouble of doing it myself, it wouldn't be worth me doing and paying for the certificate.

I'm going to the house this evening for a measure up, also take some pics, as would still like to know what the extra piece is (as per original post)
 
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wolfman1


The pictures show the original aluminium framed windows and some that have been replaced, the house is timber framed, and the original wooden frame around the aluminium has a profilr of 90mm the upvc replacements don't, so the extra piece is to cover the gap.

Given this info, and the fact i thought the old windows had this extra piece in (which they don't)(must be seeing things) If i remove the old aluminium, and the original wooden suround, what will i find? I can see that the windows would not want to be connected to brick and timber, but they appear to be in the middle, my understanding of the timber frame is that yoiu have the timber frame with waterproof membrane, then a cavity then the outer skin (in this case brick) and nothing that can track water should join the wood to the brick, so do you think i will find some kind of window acceptor or brackets, is there any special preparation needed to prevent water reaching the timber frame? this info would be good for me if i do the work or let someone else do it,just to check it is being done properly.
 
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Sorry, just realised you may be expecting a reply from me.
Given this info, and the fact i thought the old windows had this extra piece in (which they don't)(must be seeing things) If i remove the old aluminium, and the original wooden suround, what will i find?
Quiet frankly I’ve no idea as I’m not familiar with brick exterior with an internal timber sub frame. Difficult to comment without seeing it or having a bit of a poke around but I don’t really understand why the new UPVC windows have been set so far back. I would have thought better for them to be fitted flush with the brickwork & then make good inside rather that cover up (whatever is under there) with a humongous UPVC bodge trim.

I can see that the windows would not want to be connected to brick and timber, but they appear to be in the middle, my understanding of the timber frame is that yoiu have the timber frame with waterproof membrane, then a cavity then the outer skin (in this case brick) and nothing that can track water should join the wood to the brick, so do you think i will find some kind of window acceptor or brackets, is there any special preparation needed to prevent water reaching the timber frame? this info would be good for me if i do the work or let someone else do it,just to check it is being done properly.

As long as the frames are fully sealed (Silicone) around the outside, water cannot (should not!) track through to the inner timber frame; all the more reason I would have thought for fitting the new windows flush with the brickwork. Without seeing what’s under there, I’m not going to be much help to you I’m afraid as it’s not something I’ve personally come across before but if you want to remove a window & post some more pics. I’m sure I (or someone) could advise.
 
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On the older timber framed houses the frames were usually set back as the windows were already in place when the panels were erected. When the brickwork was put up it just sat behind the frame. Nowadays the frames are usually built into the brickwork because of movement problems.
 

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