Stuart Turner Monsoon Universal 4 bar twin - HUNTING

[tryitandsee]

Better picture

www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?acti...mpid=4&tmad=c&ecamp=cse_go&CAWELAID=266874905

Looks like it goes into the soil pipe!

 

[doitall]

How does the overflow work on one of these then,

www.ukbathrooms.com/images/pdf/prozone/wc frames.jpg

does it go straight into the soil pipe! I have not seen one before (obviously )

Should be internal in the pan.

You should be able to get access through the front plate, on the ones I've seen.

 

[woodfordma]

Ok. Ill take the front plates off and the isolation valves should be easy to access. PHEW!!

I also asked where the overflow goes and they said it goes into the pan / bowl first which fills up and then if that overflows it goes odwn into the waste.

So I will try to eliminate whether it is the loos or not tonight.

Thanks so much for your help. You are really kind. I will be in touch next week if that doesnt sove it as I'm going to get in serious trouble at work at this rate!

Thanks again

 

[woodfordma]

Good morning, Good morning.

Thank you for all your help last week.

I'm a teeny weeny bit closer to find the problem although sadly it is not the wc or anything to do with the cold as the hunting continues when I isolate the cold outflow but when I have the hot outflow isolated the hunting stops!!

So either there is a leak (god forbid as there is nothing visible) or could it be the mixer taps / shower valve? . If there is no easy solution here this is where I might have to get a plumber involved?

Any ideas following this revelation.

Many thanks

 

[doitall]

Turn the main stopcock off and try it.

A leak is looking the most likely at the moment.

 

[Agile]

Good morning, Good morning.

I'm a teeny weeny bit closer to find the problem although sadly it is not the wc or anything to do with the cold as the hunting continues when I isolate the cold outflow but when I have the hot outflow isolated the hunting stops!!

Many thanks

In difficult to find diagnostics you dont assume anything!

I would not assume that your WCs are necessarily correctly connected to the COLD supply!

Easy to check though. Close hot valve and flush WC and check that it still refills.

Probably only useful for current and future readers but most WC cisterns overflow into the bowl.

To check if its doing this over a period od time like overnight you need to EMPTY the bowl. You can do this using a towel to soak up the water and then a tissue to dry the last water off. Its then easy to see the next morning if any leakage has occured.

Well you are a little closer to the cause but not there yet.

Tony

 

[woodfordma]

Doitall, the leak would need to be after the pump wouldnt it?

There is a stopcock after the hot water cyclinder and there is one after the cold water storage. If I turn one of these off and isolate hot and cold outlets individually wouldnt this cause the pump to run dry. Wouldnt the leak also continue to demand water anyway? I'm not sure I understood but if you elaborate I can try tonight. Of course there is the mains stopcock coming into the house but not sure what turning that off would acheive.

Tony, I will also check its not the loos. Surely, though you would notice if hot water was filling the loo? Rather than getting a facial you would get an acial!



Will of course check though to rule that out.

I have seen posts about shower mixer valves being a cause of these problems. How would that work?

If its not the shower mixers, how does one go about finding a leak if it is not visible anywhere?

Thanks

 

[tryitandsee]

Guess Two
Can you try and trace back the hot water pipe from the pump to the outlets ie shower, basin, bidet whatever you have, in the void space of your loft. Pipe joint may be leaking onto insulation and evaporating/drying before it notices on ceilings below.

 

[doitall]

I think any leak will be visible unless it's underground.

What material is the pipework and age.

I think it has been suggested that the boosted water could enter the mains if a faulty taps/valve non-return valve etc, as the problem seems to be the hot, it would be worth checking.

Turning the incoming mains off should eliminate the theory or not.

 

[woodfordma]

The loft has been converted so any pipes going to the loft are under the floor. The pump and rest of the central heating system sit directyly under the loft so the pipes go straight up and can be seen again without tearing up the floor. You might be right that it is leaking and drying on the insulation before it gets noticed. In which case is there a way of testing for a leak without actually destroying the house all over again?

None of the pipes are old. In August 2009 British Gas plumbed the entire house from the water coming in from the mains. They used copper pipes and fitted the whole system except for the loft and 2nd floor bathroom (except they did lay the pipe work for this bathroom).

The house was then renovated and completed in December last year when the problems began in Jan, Feb or Mar. Cant remember when but it def was not straight away. They used plastic pipes up to the loft, connecting up to the existing hot and cold supplying the house from the pump. They also connected up the skeletal pipework in the 2nd floor bathroom to the w/c, shower and sink etc. They installed underfloor heating in the kitchen changed the position of the kitchen tap. All shower mixers / taps / loos etc are new.

So I should literally turn off the stop cock at the mains coming into the house to see if the pump stops hunting? Bearing in mind the stop cock is in the cellar and therefore more than two floors beneath the whole central heating system. If it stops the hunting, what would that tell me?

 

[doitall]

See what happens. In the morning check the water level in the storage tank and see whether it has dropped.

I'm going back to the secondary circuit, as I don't like the new bathroom prior to the problem.

Is the hot water circulated around the house with a bronze pump on the cylinder.

What model is the Monsoon pump.

 

[woodfordma]

It used to bronze be but now its black since the replaced it (like for like). Its the 4 bar twin negative head monsoon pump.

 

[doitall]

And there's not another pump other than the ST monsoon.

Can you isolate the new bathrooms from the rest of the house.

 

[woodfordma]

No other pumps and can not isolate the bathrooms either.

 

[tryitandsee]

If no leaks, could it be the non return valve on the hot side letting by.