Stuart Turner Monsoon Universal 4 bar twin - HUNTING

[woodfordma]

Doitall

Tomorrow morning, before I leave for work, I will turn off the mains stopcock and leave all taps closed. Then when I return in the evening I will leave it for one hour to see if the pump has continued hunting.

I think we can rule out the non return valve on the new pump (as this problem existed on the old and new pump).

The fact that it took a month or two after the completion of the works (including all plumbing) for the problem to begin and that the hunting was far apart at first and then became more frequent should tell us something shouldnt it?

Thanks

M

 

[doitall]

Yes, it would tell me you have a leak and it's getting progressively worse.

Just a shot in the dark of course.

 

[tryitandsee]

Make sure the washing machine hot and cold solenoid valves are not letting by.
With a pumped supply (4 bar pump?) may be too much pressure and the solenoid valves are not up to it. As my name sake, isolate the washing machine fill hoses by what ever means you have (as long as you haven't boxed that in as well )
Then that will rule that one out.

I must admit, so much more information has been revealed, that unless you can start to isolate and eliminate tap/valve/appliance, you are chasing your tail.
Perhaps a little less boxing in and some accessible isolating valves would have been better. It's inevitable, you pay taxes, you have plumbing problems and then you die

From your very first post, I can sympathise with your neighbour, as that pump must be running 24/7

 

[tryitandsee]

I was wrong regards high pressure NOT shutting solenoid valves, it's the opposite apparently. High pressure shuts them.

Interesting bit about that linked, also crud in inlet filters reducing pressure allowing water to enter drum. Still worth isolating though.

www.washerhelp.co.uk/diy-repair-help_7.html

 

[tryitandsee]

Another quote from internet. Would be good if this was the problem

Water-inlet valve
Water-inlet valves eventually fail. One problem that may develop with a water-inlet valve is that it can no longer completely shut off when the electricity is turned off to it. Then, the valve may leak and drip water into the clothes tub--you may notice that your washer has water in it when you haven't used it for a few days. To fix this, replace the valve.

 

[Agile]

Hi Tony

Just to clarify incase there is a misunderstanding. I meant that when I open the taps all the way to the cold position and run the water the pump does not come on, rather than moving the taps all the way to the cold but not running water. When running the water I move the tap slightly away from the cold the pump begins to run (just showing that the pump is feeding hot and mains is feeding cold).

So I can test your theory tonight that if I leave all the mixers all the way on the cold side (but not running) the hunting will stop? I'm not sure if that will work thought because I tend to leave the taps in the cold position anyway. If the pump does not stop hunting does that necessarlily rule out this hypothesis?

Thanks

Mark

I had understood what you wrote to be the situation! This again emphasisises the importance of clearly stating what you do. So perhaps we have not yet definately identified the problem.

Please repeat, mains water OFF, cold kitchen tap ON. Mixers in cold position.

Wait an hour or two, then feel each mixed tap and see if any feel warm! Caused by hot crossing to cold.

This is where a professional with a contact thermometer is far better off as a few degrees difference can be measured.

Often you can hear water leakage in a tap with a mechanical stethescope!

Please do this and advise us of the outcome.

Flush toilets with a bucket filled in advance.

Fill kettle before cutting water off.

Tony

 

[doitall]

Doesn't prove anything Tony, other than there could be water hanging in the pipe, which would be expected unless you drain them all out first.

 

[woodfordma]

Morning

Ok. I am able to isolate the the washing machine as there is a valve on the inlet so I will try this. We had the washing machine changed after the rennovation, when the old cruddy one died. We replaced it with a Miele. There seems to be only one pipe leading to the washing machine. Do they only work off cold (like a dishwasher)?

Last night I moved the mixers to the cold position and the pump continued to go off every 15-20 mins. Although I have not tried this with the mains off and kitchen cold tap open. I can do this too.

There is a valve on the hot and cold water supply to the mixer taps. I could shut off the hot to the mixers and see if it stops hunting however I can not shut off the hot to the shower mixer (unless I take out mixer but I'm not sure I have the tools as there are two small holes - Grohe Eurostyle Single-lever Shower Mixer Set).

I turn the pump off overnight so everybody can get some sleep at night including my neighbours. The boxing is not too bad either. I think the only things I can not isolate are the showers and I can not get to the cold water storage.

Doitall and Tony, you are both proposing I do pretty much the same test but Tony's invloves leaving the kitchen cold tap on. Its easy to test these whilst I am at work all day as I can set the test up before I go to work and see what the results are when I get back. I will do both and report back, although annoyingly I have the weekend in the way (never thought I'd say that).

 

[doitall]

You say you turn the pump off at night, what happens in the morning when you turn it back on and how long does it run

 

[woodfordma]

Yes. When I plug it back in, it goes off for its usual 4-5 seconds. It does not run for longet than the usual hunting every 15 - 20 minutes when the pump is left on all day.

 

[woodfordma]

I think I mentioned it in earlier post but if I isolate the pump's hot outlet and then immediately open it again, the pump does not run. If I isolate the hot and leave it for a minute or two then open it again the pump will run for a few seconds.

 

[Agile]

Turning off the hot feed valve stops the problem. That shows the problem is caused by a flow from the hot supply.

If this is caused by leakage into the cold supply this will be greater if the cold is at zero pressure with cold tap open.

The test proposed involves encouraging more flow to the cold and seeing if there is a trace of warming any of the mixers.

This problem is most likely to be in showers!

Any cold fed appliances like toilet cisterns or washing machines are not involved!

Tony

 

[doitall]

Best thing is to do all the tests for Tony then come back in a weeks time and I can pick up and start again.

 

[woodfordma]

Tony,

Are the only mixers that could be the problem the ones fed by pumped hot and mains cold. e.g mixers upstairs fed by pumped hot and pumped cold are not an issue?

As I mentioned. It is straight forward for me to shut the valve of the hot pipe going to the tap mixer. If I knew how to get into the shower mixer, hopefully I would be able to close the hot there too. Does anyone know what tools are needed to remove the below shower mixer?

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/g...wer-mixer-set--19507---35501-/large-19507.JPG

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/g...wer-mixer-set--19507---35501-/large-35501.JPG

http://bathroomsandtilesonline.com/images/thumbs/0001089.jpg

 

[Agile]

The cause is quite simple! Its only that we dont know what it is at the moment!

If the tests I am asking him to do fail to identify the problem then I can always go there ( at a cost ) and see for myself.

Remember I do a no-fee no-fix!

Would DoItAll be prepared to visit the OP?