Stuart Turner Monsoon Universal 4 bar twin - HUNTING

[tryitandsee]

If you have time this web site was very useful

www.plumbteamltd.co.uk/stuart.html

I replicated a hunting pump this morning with my S T Universal Twin, turned tap to drip in the loft basin and it took a good 10/15 mins for the pump to kick in to repressurise. The pump stayed on for 4 seconds.

How long does it take for your pump to kick in when nobody using any water?

A case of illumination is needed I think. First, find out if it is the hot side or the cold side of the pump pipe work that may be at fault. Isolate the cold flow away from the pump with isolating valve and see if the hunting stops. Do the same with the hot flow away from pump, ditto. If one of those, then try and isolate wc with the individual stop valve (if fitted of course), keep going until you find the offending item!

If none of those call the guy back who installed this new pump and say it may be faulty

 

[woodfordma]

The wcs are wall hung. I can get to the workings of the loft wc but the other wc is boxed it. I dont really want to tear up the boxing until all options are exhausted.

It will def try your suggestion to isolate cold and hot outlet separtely to see which it is. I'll try to do this tonight.

What does the wc isolating idividual stop valve look like. I can try the one in the loft. I have a Geberit wall hung concealed unit.

Im almost certain its not the pump as the problem started after works. Then a stuart turner came to replace the old pump with a brand new one (and I trust they know how to install their own pumps) so kind of proving it wasnt the pump.

The hunting started after the works on the old pump. It began hours apart and only noticed as it suddenly went off in the night and woke us all up. Then it got worse and started getting closer and closer together until it was practically every ten minutes.

I then had the pump changed and for a couple of hours it didnt hunt but started again and I think it is more frequent again but not regular. Sometimes in the evenings it goes off every 15 minutes (only for a few seconds each time).

It is sensitive but there are def no dripping taps. So I guess from what you guys are saying the options are:

A) Leaking pipe / joint - but nothing visible anywhere in the house
B) Air escaping from flexihose joint causing pre charge to lose pressure?
C) WC causing the pump to go off. I understand now that these should be fed by mains although without ripping up the floors I'm not sure how this is possible. Is there a fix if this is the case. Can you explain to me in laymens terms why the loos are causing the pump to go off as I can not see any overfilling cisterns. No movement in bowls even after hours.

 

[woodfordma]

ps Thanks for the link.

Will the pre charge vessel have a meter on it showing the bar inside. Skimming the link the pressure should be 0.9 bar.

 

[doitall]

It isn't acting like an expansion vessel problem.

Have you checked a WC isn't running into the pan.

Perhaps the siphon is letting by.

 

[woodfordma]

Hi. Is that just to check for water movement in the pan? Well after the cistern fills the water in the pan is dead still in both loos. Checked this early on.

 

[doitall]

You are describing a leak.

The obvious place to look would be the WC internal overflow, see if there's water running in the bowl.

Colour the water to make it easier to see what's happening

 

[tryitandsee]

A complete stab in the dark here, getting desperate. Could it be the concealed wc cistern overflowing. It may have been plumbed so that its overflow goes directly into the soil stack or somewhere else that you don't notice it.
Personally I loathe anything that is concealed, as it's sods law that you need to get at it for repairs

 

[tryitandsee]

A complete stab in the dark here, getting desperate. Could it be the concealed wc cistern overflowing. It may have been plumbed so that its overflow goes directly into the soil stack or somewhere else that you don't notice it.
Personally I loathe anything that is concealed, as it's sods law that you need to get at it for repairs

 

[woodfordma]

Hmm


Im pretty sure there is no water running into the bowl as that is the first thing I checked when someone mentioned it could be the loos. It wouldn't make sense to plumb the overflow directly into the waste as imagine how much water you would waste without realising but some plumbers do inexplicable things! I shall try to check by having a good look around the loft wall hung unit.

I think my best bet is to get someone around with plenty of experience of these types of issues and with these particular pumps. Do either of you know a good plumber in London (SE London better still)?

I can understand what you guys are saying but dont know how to go about checking each possibility.

 

[tryitandsee]

A good plumber would have put in isolating valves to each appliance easily accessible to you!

You should have them, if not perhaps the overflow has been directed somewhere obscure.

Isolate the wc's first before calling out a engineer, it really should be simple, just to eliminate them.

 

[doitall]

Thats why isolating parts with service valves will help to pin the problem down.

It maybe an existing WC, whatever, turning the various appliances off, till you find the problem one.

 

[woodfordma]

Yeah. I can def get to the loft one tonight but the other one is boxed in and will require some redecorating if I take it out.

Lets assume it is one of the loos and I can not see any water movement in the bowl (I will double check tonight). Also assuming the guys plumbing in the loo werent utterly moronic and plumbing the overflow directly to the waste.

If the loo is boxed in (being a wall hung unit) and presumably the isolating valve is on the loo frame then I have to disassemble the boxing. Does the isolating valve exist on the loo unit itself or is it like a tap on a pipe leading to the loo?

I will chack for a tap on the pipework going in the direction of the loo I can not access easily.

 

[doitall]

There should be an access panel somewhere.

Although a wc is the most likely, it could be a dripping tap, or an underground leak if the pipes are in the floor.

 

[woodfordma]

The only pipes actually under a cement floor are the underfloor heating in the kitchen so that is separate.

Other than kitchen all hot water pipes supply upstairs so any leaks would be seen by stain on ceiling beneath. Only the kitchen hot water pipe must momentarily pass somewhere inaccessible to get into the kitchen but there are no small puddles anywhere and this is highly unlikely. I hope its the loos. I will isolate cold outlet first. If that stops hunting I will then try to isolate loft wc on its own. If that doesnt work I will have to take a look to see how I can possibly isolate the other one without undoing the boxing.

 

[tryitandsee]

How does the overflow work on one of these then,

www.ukbathrooms.com/images/pdf/prozone/wc frames.jpg

does it go straight into the soil pipe! I have not seen one before (obviously )