I recently had a kitchen renovation and the builder removed a stud wall between my existing kitchen and dining room. He assured me that as it was a stud wall, it would be non load bearing and the existing first floor support beams would be sufficient to provide a stable support. However, although the stud wall should be non load bearing, I am concerned that the original builder may have used it to provide some structural support and possibly reduce the size (cost) of the first floor support beams. Do I need to concern myself about this, or would the building regulations have prevented this happening?
Stud wall removal
- Thread starter Miles12
- Start date
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It is rare to find a stud wall supporting the floor joists but not impossible.
Take a look at your stair well and work out the size (depth) of the floor joists by measuring the trimmer less ceiling and floor thickness then measure the clear span, and post the info'.
However, we will not know how far apart the joists are spaced or what width the joists are, nor is the stair trimmer a firm indication of the joist depth in an entire house.
Has there been any sag or visible cracking etc?
Take a look at your stair well and work out the size (depth) of the floor joists by measuring the trimmer less ceiling and floor thickness then measure the clear span, and post the info'.
However, we will not know how far apart the joists are spaced or what width the joists are, nor is the stair trimmer a firm indication of the joist depth in an entire house.
Has there been any sag or visible cracking etc?
As far as I can see, the joists are 175mm x 47mm at what appears to be 150mm spacing. The unsupported length is 4500mm and the room is 3250mm wide. The old stud wall was 2000mm from one end of the 4500mm length and the builder has left the top timber from the old stud wall in place and build a plasterboard section around it, which is 150mm x 100mm, suggesting that the timber beneath it would be in the region of 75mm x 50mm, with the 75mm length mounted on the ceiling. This structure runs the complete 3250mm width of the ceiling and there is no visible cracking of the plasterboard surrounding the timber, suggesting little or no sag. The bathroom is directly above the old kitchen area (2000mm) and has a stud partition wall directly above where the existing lower wall was positioned.
175mm x 50mm does seem rather lean for that span although at 150mm spacing (very unusual spacing) it may be fine.
We need some of the more learned boys complete with their trada tables to confirm.
Looking at my rudimentary tables 4500mm span would require 225mm x 50mm at 400mm c/c using c24 grade timber with dead load of no more than 0.75 kN/m²
We need some of the more learned boys complete with their trada tables to confirm.
Looking at my rudimentary tables 4500mm span would require 225mm x 50mm at 400mm c/c using c24 grade timber with dead load of no more than 0.75 kN/m²
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Does the bedroom floor flex or bounce when walking on it? And is the bath against an outside wall? A full bath + person weighs quite a lot.
Agree with noseall that the span seems excessive (even by the old timber tables, which were not as stringent as the TRADA tables).
150mm spacing does seem very unusual. Does this apply to all of the joists throughout the room?
Agree with noseall that the span seems excessive (even by the old timber tables, which were not as stringent as the TRADA tables).
150mm spacing does seem very unusual. Does this apply to all of the joists throughout the room?
I'll check the joist spacing by removing a light fitting. They are all the same spacing. I was using B&D Stud wall locater to check the spacing. However, I do know that the joist is 7" because when the builders were in I measured it. I am assuming 47mm, because that seemed to be a standard size. I'll re-check by piercing the ceiling board with a sharp object. The bath is against the outside walls (corner of the house). There is definitely more floor movement than before the wall was removed, which is why I raised the question. However, my concern is still that if I were to provide an RSJ support, one end would be on the outside wall and the other on another stud wall which separates the kitchen from the lounge. I suppose I could add a support half way along the existing wooden cross beam and make it a feature of the kitchen........
Checked out the joist pitch and it is 400mm. Also the joist width is 50mm, so it looks as though the design/installation is not to standard. The house was build by Costain in 1983, so I assume it should have been constructed to the building standards of the day. Not sure where I go from here, other than call in a local builder, who I am sure will suggest an additional support, whether it needs it or not, because once asked for an opinion, they would probably take the safe route
You are going in a correct direction. I think the local contractor can help you and can give a proper suggestion on remodeling. The house seems to be a old one and if you really need to renovate it then it is better to ask for a second opinion. It can save your money as well.
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