Suitable fire rated night latch, required.

[Ron In Thanet]

Hi all, thanks for your time.
I need been told i need a suitable fire rated night latch on a flat door, so many night latches on sale but cant see any fire rated although BS is mentioned but i believe the BS applies to security only.

Really just need a fire rated nightlatch, security is provided by other mortise lock.

Any ideas, thanks again

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I may be wrong, but I doubt that you'll find what you are looking for. It is normal to install fire door sets which are fire rated, but that doesn't mean to say they are fire proof, just that they will withstand a fire for a set amount of time before failing (normally 30, 60 90 or 120 minutes). In order to achieve this specific materials are used in the construction of the door and its' casing, and installation itself which also has to conform to set standards.

BTW Smith & Locke manufacture night latches which are fire rated at 30 and 60 minutes, but theybare not unique. TBH i doubt you'll find many night latches with a 60 minute or higher rating simply because installation requires a big hole to be drilled through the door (in the same way that a letterbox needs a big hole) - and any hole through a fire door is going to potentially diminish the fire integrity of the door. When dealing with fire doors it is important that all the ironmongery and ancillaries attached to the door are manufactured and installed to the same fire standard, e.g. an FD60 door installed in an FD60 casing with an FD30 night latch would only warrant a 30 minute rating (assuming everything was correctly installed)

 

[foxhole]

Probably find it hard to find one that’s not minimum fire rated .

 

[conny]

Excuse the ignorance, but how do you fire rate a night latch?
It's made of metal, (often brass & steel), so it's not going to melt unless temperatures are extremely high. In which case a fire door is going to be well breached by that time, I would imagine. A small hole for the through bar is, surely, not going to make that much of a difference?

 

[DiyNutJob]

Fire rating for cool to the touch for certain amount of time.

 

[opps]

Fire rating for cool to the touch for certain amount of time.

That doesn't make sense.

Why would you want to open a door when you know that there is a raging fire on the other side of it? And if the fire was on your side of the door, with the door being on fire, how would you get to the door knob in the first place?

I suspect that a night latch that cannot be deadlocked from the outside is what is required.

Yale 91 Nightlatch 60mm - Fire Modification

If someone absent mindedly used a key to lock the door from the outside, with many night latches, anyone inside would be locked in.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Excuse the ignorance, but how do you fire rate a night latch?

Presumably they did a burn test. I believe the issue with metal is that it transmits heat into the door, which is why for 60 minute (and above) rated door sets we are generally required to wrap the lock bodies with intumescent material, etc. A 30 minute requirement (such as the Smith & Locke night latches I mentioned above) doesn't normally require that, but equally you don't want a lock to have plastic components which are going to.melt well before you reach, or exceed your fire rating

I would imagine. A small hole for the through bar is, surely, not going to make that much of a difference?

Night latches tend to require big holes... Hence a 30 minute rating(?)

Maybe also worth noting that the tendency in multiple occupancies (e.g. apartment complexes) these days is for many of the doors being installed have multipoint (espagnolette) type locks. Three or more locking points on one side of the door combined with three equidistant hinges on the other side tends to prevent fire failures in which a door corner curls and fails

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Fire rating for cool to the touch for certain amount of time.

Nope! Fire rating is very much about fire compartment integrity - as stated earlier intumescent seals expand to fill gaps at around 200°C. A bigger issue for human beings is smoke - which is why cold smoke seals are fitted. In terms of egress in HMOs, public buildings, etc fire exit doors are almost always hung so that they open outwards with either no handles or a crash pad/crash bar arrangement which does not need to be hand operated - far better for escape in event of fire

 

[Rodders53]

Go back to whomever told you for more details and recommendations?

People here are guessing as to the intent / requirement with good intention but that may not give an accurate answer for the situation you have.

Mr Google found me some useful stuff via your phrase < fire rated night latch >
https://www.safelincs-forum.co.uk/topic/5167-can-i-fit-night-latch-on-flat-front-door/ might cover the situation you have (or not)?

 

[DiyNutJob]

Nope! Fire rating is very much about fire compartment integrity - as stated earlier intumescent seals expand to fill gaps at around 200°C. A bigger issue for human beings is smoke - which is why cold smoke seals are fitted. In terms of egress in HMOs, public buildings, etc fire exit doors are almost always hung so that they open outwards with either no handles or a crash pad/crash bar arrangement which does not need to be hand operated - far better for escape in event of fire

Nope. I should know. I spoke to a fire door assessor recently.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

People here are guessing as to the intent / requirement with good intention but that may not give an accurate answer for the situation you have.

Thanks. The OP actually asked about fireproof night latches, whereas the terminology is always fire rated and I endeavoured to differentiate between the two - that might seem like a linguistic nicety, but it isn't. Any fire door has to be installed as part of a system - so there isn't a one size fits all solution, not even the answer you linked to.

There is also the fact that the response you linked to is dated 2017 - 6 years ago - and is therefore potentially very out of date, especially in light of the post-Grenfell recommendations and the new guidelines issued last year (2022), i.e. the Fire Safety England Regulations (2022).

This is one of the issues about quoting from the Internet without being aware of subsequent changes in legislation or regulation.

 

[Rodders53]

Thanks.

You're welcome. (Had I hit a raw nerve or something.)

I did suggest that the OP should (maybe MUST) seek clarification from whomever is suggesting something is needed.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The issue is that having carped about the comments made on the topic you then linked to a 6 year old thread elsewhere, whilst seemingly being blithely unaware of the fact that in 2022 we had a major tightening up in regulation AND inspection regimes (the Fire Safety Act 2021 and the Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022). I can quote those two because they are part and parcel of my daily work. Out of date information in this regard doesn't help anyone and to my mind highlights one of the major weaknesses of the Internet - lack of context

If the OP has been advised to fit a fire rated night latch it is a reasonable bet that he lives in somewhere like an apartment block where there has recently been a fire door survey carried out and that the advice came from that. Such inspections have often been missed or overlooked in the past and the fact that building managers are now, at long last, taking the issue more seriously is to be applauded

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Nope. I should know. I spoke to a fire door assessor recently.

More BS, no doubt, that or your usual inability to grasp any subject. Go read the relevant British Standards on the subject of fire doors - it says nothing about "cool to the touch"

Hint: try BS EN 1634-1 and BS EN 12209

 

[Ron In Thanet]

Thanks for the replies
The door (flat fire door) was inspected, unfortunately i was not there. The present night latch (egress,roller bolt) It was mentioned if there was a fire in the flat the occupants would exit in a hurry.
The perko self closer will pull the door fully into the frame but the existing nightlatch is not designed to automatically engage the bolt into the keep in the door frame. The door will not be positively retained=locked by the nightlatch or held closed enough by the perko.
Have seen so many night latches for sale, some have detailed specifications which say fire rated yes/no it's always no.

Thinking a well known brand, all metal nightlatch, with egress. no snib button or professionally disabled snib button is suitable.

Thanks for the replies