Supply to shower problem

[Risteard]

AFAIAA, Australia is the only major country that has yet done it - I wonder if there are any others, and whether it has changed very much in Australia?

In the south of Ireland it is unlawful for anyone other than a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC) to carry out any Restricted Electrical Works, which includes all work in a domestic dwelling other than defined "minor works".

 

[ban-all-sheds]

if it is your view that any DIYer who does not understand the meaning of (yet alone be able to measure and interpret) things like R1+R2 and Zs does not have adequate skill and knowledge to undertake any electrical DIY work, then forums like this might as well be closed down and replaced with a campaign to get DIY electrical work banned.

No - forums like this can spearhead a drive to improve the knowledge of DIYers so that they do become able to understand R1+R2, Zs etc.

Just because you don't want to be a part of that that doesn't mean that it should not be an aim of the site.

Fair enough. However, as BAS often says, it's not usually a case of 'cannot' as 'will not' (most people could probably acquire the understanding and means of doing any of these things if they put their minds to it)

Indeed.

And if they will not put their minds to it then they must not go ahead and fiddle

- if you live in the same world as me, you presumably acknowledge the fact that the great majority of 'occasional electrical DIYers' (such as most of those we see in this forum) will not do any testing (other than 'functional testing'!). I agree that's far from ideal,

It's more than "far from ideal". It is totally unacceptable.

but, as I've said, if one feels that it is not acceptable for DIY electrical work to be done on that basis, then one should, IMO, really refrain from giving any advice in a forum like this, and should campaign for the outlawing of DIY electrical work.

No - one can campaign to improve the knowledge of DIYers. Just because you don't want to have anything to do with that it doesn't mean that it should not be done.

There are DIY jobs and there are jobs which should not be DIY even though anyone can do anything themselves, albeit badly. ... If it is decided to 'help' someone regardless of their competence and regard for safety that is your decision.

That is accepted, and is the usual 'general discussion' we have. However, the suggestion/implication in this thread seems to have been that someone who cannot understand, measure and interpret, say, R1+R2 and Zs, they do not have 'the skill and knowledge' to undertake any electrical DIY work. Whilst I can obviously understand why some people say that, and respect their right to have that view, as I have said it is effectively saying that virtually no 'occasional electrical DIY' should ever be done. Is that your view?

I can't speak for EFLI, but were you to say that to me I would reply that they do not have the skill and knowledge to undertake electrical work where they should know those things, and that the choice is not one of "virtually no 'occasional electrical DIY' " vs encouraging people to fiddle with things they don't understand because there is the option of encouraging and assisting them to acquire the necessary understanding. Just because you don't want to have any part of that that doesn't mean that it is not an option.

In that situation, saying "don't do it" or "get an electrician/doctor" may do something for the conscience of the responder, but doesn't help the questioner. It's a real dilemma.

It's not a dilemma, and it does help the questioner. "Helpful" is not for them to filter through their prejudices.

 

[JohnW2]

but, as I've said, if one feels that it is not acceptable for DIY electrical work to be done on that basis, then one should, IMO, really refrain from giving any advice in a forum like this, and should campaign for the outlawing of DIY electrical work.

No - one can campaign to improve the knowledge of DIYers.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that my statements you are commenting on were responses to people other than yourself. I would not have written the above to you, since I know that the 'advice' you give is often restricted to your own flavour of attempts to improve the knowledge of the DIYer in question, without any answers to their electrical questions. My comments you have intercepted were responses to people who do give 'electrical answers' even if (as surely must often be the case) they know or suspect that the person concerned has inadequate knowledge and/or facilities.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My comments you have intercepted were responses to people who do give 'electrical answers' even if (as surely must often be the case) they know or suspect that the person concerned has inadequate knowledge and/or facilities.

If they know or suspect that then it would be reprehensible of them to give "electrical answers".

 

[JohnW2]

My comments you have intercepted were responses to people who do give 'electrical answers' even if (as surely must often be the case) they know or suspect that the person concerned has inadequate knowledge and/or facilities.

If they know or suspect that then it would be reprehensible of them to give "electrical answers".

That was essentially what I was saying - since, unless they live in cloud cuckooland, they must at least suspect that most of those to whom they give 'electrical answers' are not going to undertake a full set of 'per BS7671' tests, and they must know from many of the questions that the questioner's knowledge/understanding is clearly 'deficient'.

However, as I keep saying, if that 'reprehensible practice' were to be eliminated, I would imagine that very few people who came to this form for help/advice would ever get any 'electrical answers' - in which case the forum would/should die.

Kind Regards, John