surely these are bad news

[JohnW2]

In the absence of a lamp, both terminals can be touched, just as with a bayonet fitting. It makes little difference which way round they are. It's a relatively low risk because the current path is across a finger tip rather than across the heart.

True, if one pushes one's finger all the way in. However, I would suggest that with an ES holder it's much more likley that one would touch just the outer. If one does that, and it's live, then whether current goes through the heart will depend upon what the rest of one's body is touching or in contunuity with at the time.

Again, I have to ask, since it's no more difficult to wire a lampholder one way than the other, wouldn't it make sense for theregs to require the outer always to be wired to neutral - just in case that prevents at least some injuries/deaths. I can certainly think of no 'downside' of connecting the outer to neutral.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

So, not bad news, then.

 

[stillp]

In the absence of a lamp, both terminals can be touched, just as with a bayonet fitting. It makes little difference which way round they are. It's a relatively low risk because the current path is across a finger tip rather than across the heart.

True, if one pushes one's finger all the way in. However, I would suggest that with an ES holder it's much more likley that one would touch just the outer. If one does that, and it's live, then whether current goes through the heart will depend upon what the rest of one's body is touching or in contunuity with at the time.

Again, I have to ask, since it's no more difficult to wire a lampholder one way than the other, wouldn't it make sense for theregs to require the outer always to be wired to neutral - just in case that prevents at least some injuries/deaths. I can certainly think of no 'downside' of connecting the outer to neutral.

Kind Regards, John

Well, you'd have to push your finger quite a way in to contact the outer terminal of a compliant lampholder, and I suspect you'd be much more likely to touch both terminals than just one.
However, I can't see any technical reason why the outer should not be required to be connected to neutral. Perhaps it's just that many would see it as another unnecessary requirement, which would require another test at all ES lampholders. OTOH, perhaps JPEL/64 didn't want to encourage people to think that neutral is safe to touch.

 

[JohnW2]

So, not bad news, then.

In some people's minds, maybe not.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

However, I can't see any technical reason why the outer should not be required to be connected to neutral. Perhaps it's just that many would see it as another unnecessary requirement, which would require another test at all ES lampholders.

Perhaps - but if it were perceived as enhancing safety, the fact that it would 'require another test' really wouldn't be a very good reason for not requiring it.

OTOH, perhaps JPEL/64 didn't want to encourage people to think that neutral is safe to touch.

I get annoyed by that sort of view, since it's more academic than anything else - and, in cases like this, can in the real world result in reduced safety. As I hope we can agree, in the vast (almost overwhelming) majority of cases, it's much more potentially dangerous to touch L than N!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

So, not bad news, then.

In some people's minds, maybe not.

I was under the same impression as you regarding the holders with two spring connectors and a plastic screw.

It does seem silly that the regulation does not apply to the metal screw ones.

I have always connected the neutral to the screw (thinking I was supposed to) as it would seem the alternative is to purposely connect the live to it.
Why would anyone do that?

To which fittings does 559.6.1.8 apply?

 

[JohnW2]

I was under the same impression as you regarding the holders with two spring connectors and a plastic screw. It does seem silly that the regulation does not apply to the metal screw ones.

Very silly, IMO.

I was I have always connected the neutral to the screw (thinking I was supposed to) as it would seem the alternative is to purposely connect the live to it. Why would anyone do that?

Quite. It would be silly, perverse, and illogical. Given that one has to connect it one way or another, why not do it the way which, at least in some circumstances, could be safer.

To which fittings does 559.6.1.8 apply?

Seemingly any ES lampholders which are not BS EN 60238-compliant - the statement isn't qualified in any way.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[stillp]

I was under the same impression as you regarding the holders with two spring connectors and a plastic screw.

I've been wondering what kind of lampholder you're referring to here. Any pics?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Bigger pic here

 

[stillp]

OK, thanks EFLI. I've not seen those - I must have lived a sheltered life! Even less chance of inadvertent contact with those.