Tall house, cold hall

[JohnD]

I have a 1980's 3-storey house. ceiling to ceiling height per floor is 3050mm (yes, I know that's a lot, over 10 feet). In the centre of the house is the hall and stairwell. The hall is 2000 wide and 5500 long, with a part glazed wooden door at each end, and an open porch at the front. Also on the ground floor next to the hall are an unheated but draftproofed and insulated integral garage, an unheated utility room, WC, shower and spare room. The floor is uninsulated concrete. The interior walls are tri-wall dense concrete blocks.

Although the house is well heated and insulated, you can see that the hall is always going to be the coldest part. It has a 1200 x 700 single rad, but of course the heat rushes up the stairwell to the upper landings which are comfortable.

I am wondering if a long, low rad would do any better, or if I should be thinking about floor heating. I am thinking that a large surface at a modest temperature might not lose all its heat up the stairwell.

I don't want to use a fan heater in the hall if I can help it.

What ideas?

 

[Bahco]

Hi John

Just a thought but is putting a false ceiling on your stairwell an option?

You could insulate it too which would help.

The only other option is to have larger or more rads to get it to a comfortable temp. If your thermostat is in the hall, it will obviously keep your boiler firing too

 

[PaulAH]

What an elegantly-put question

I know nothing about central heating but have long felt that air temperature alone does not bring a sensation of real warmth. What makes us feel most comfortable is radiant heat emitted from the surroundings or reflected back from the body.

So a fan heater would not necessarily help. At worst, it just feels stifling.

You should, as Bahco suggests, restrict the flow of heat upstairs and reduce the heat loss to the colder rooms by draughtproofing and insulation. But I have a hunch that more rads, evenly spaced, would make the hall feel warmer - even if their total heat output was not much more than your existing one.

Preparing to be shot down...

 

[John.B]

Please don't shout me down on this one but there is another way to look at this. Is there room to put a radiator upstairs on the landing? Reason behind it is that all your heat from the hall rad at the moment is going upstairs, this is through natural convection currents as warm air rises and it is heating the landing. If the landing had it's own radiator then the hall rad is left to heat the hall not heat the hall and landing as at present.
The landing rad will in effect create a warm air blanket at the top of the stairs leaving the hall rad to just heat the hall area. By fitting a thermostatic valve to the landing rad you will stop the landing from becoming too hot once the initial heating has taken place.
I know it sounds silly and I know it takes a while to get your head round the idea but it does work. If you do not have the space on the landing then try a double radiator in the hall same size as present.

 

[chrishutt]

I know nothing about central heating but have long felt that air temperature alone does not bring a sensation of real warmth. What makes us feel most comfortable is radiant heat emitted from the surroundings or reflected back from the body.

I disagree - you know a lot more about central heating than most. Well summarised.

 

[John.B]

JohnD what is overall height from the hall floor to the top storey ceiling.
Does the hall rad have to heat the other two landings on it's own or are there other radiators to share the load.

 

[Nige F]

Please don't shout me down on this one but there is another way to look at this. Is there room to put a radiator upstairs on the landing? Reason behind it is that all your heat from the hall rad at the moment is going upstairs, this is through natural convection currents as warm air rises and it is heating the landing. If the landing had it's own radiator then the hall rad is left to heat the hall not heat the hall and landing as at present.
The landing rad will in effect create a warm air blanket at the top of the stairs leaving the hall rad to just heat the hall area. By fitting a thermostatic valve to the landing rad you will stop the landing from becoming too hot once the initial heating has taken place.
I know it sounds silly and I know it takes a while to get your head round the idea but it does work. If you do not have the space on the landing then try a double radiator in the hall same size as present.

Doesn`t sound silly to me,probably because I said the same to a cust. yesterday Are we in a twilight zone together

 

[Diyisfun]

Rather than lose all the heat up the stairs, have you considered mounting a ceiling fan (if room) on the landing ceiling. It would be possible to connect this to a t/stat & there by pushing the heat back down the stairs.

 

[John.B]

Nige F. Looks like it.

 

[JohnD]

thanks for the replies I will take some measureemnts and have a think when I get in.

 

[PaulAH]

I disagree - you know a lot more about central heating than most.

Nice of you, Chris. I may have picked up a little along the way.

It was many years ago at the Machynllech alternative technology centre where the penny dropped about radiant heat. They have a huge exhibition hall heated by a black-body stove the size of a car. Even on a damp and chilly Welsh day you could feel the heat from 30 feet away.

A guy came to stoke it - inside were just three smouldering logs!

 

[oilman]

............... inside were just three smouldering logs!

Hmm, there must have been some seperate combustion chamber, otherwise the tar from the logs would condense in the chimney.

Anyway, we have a tall house but it's warm downstairs, we just keep the door at the bottom of the stairs shut

 

[htgeng]

I am wondering if a long, low rad would do any better, or if I should be thinking about floor heating. I am thinking that a large surface at a modest temperature might not lose all its heat up the stairwell.
?

Correct! Go for underfloor heating. Then you get a very big radiator working at low temperature.

 

[kaboom]

Spiderman suction pads or stilts. Get up where the heat is!

 

[PaulAH]

Hmm, there must have been some seperate combustion chamber, otherwise the tar from the logs would condense in the chimney.

Have you seen those guys? They would either recycle the tar as fuel or eat it.