Telephone cable vs Cat 5 network cable

[Andy77]

Hello all

I am looking for some advice on what kind of cable to use for installing an additional telephone socket. Currently the master socket is at the front of the house, but I want to put in another socket at the back of the house where my computer will be, and where I will plug in my broadband modem.

Shortly after all of this I am planning to lay carpets, so given that I don't want to go back under the floor in the future, would there be any point in me installing a higher grade of cable (e.g. Cat 5 network cable) instead of conventional telephone cable? Does this give me any advantage in terms of 'future-proofing' or even just in terms of a better signal to and from the master socket? And if so, are there any issues of exactly what grade of cable I should use? The cable will be daisy-chained off the normal BT master socket, and will lead to another conventional telephone socket at the back of the house.

Any thoughts? Would really appreciate any advice as I am a newbie in this area.

Ta

 

[bernardgreen]

Hi

Best ADSL is achieved by separating the phone circuits and the ADSL circuit as much as possible.


Best option is to run a single twisted pair from the existing BT master box to the location of the computer where you then fit a PBX-NTE5 which you can buy from Solwise http://www.solwise.co.uk/telesun.htm Do not connect any phones to the back of the BT Master box.

You then replace the front plate of this PBX-NTE5 with an ADSL-NTEFACE

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm

This face plate has a heavy duty ADSL filter wich provides a ADSL socket and a filtered phone socket the front. At the rear are the connections for house wiring to all other phones. ( hence they do not need a local ADSL filter ).

By connecting the intenal wiring to all phones to the single filter in the PBX-NTE5 you are keeping the ADSL signal confined to the single pair from the BT incomer to the ADSL socket which improves ADSL performance. At the end of a long or poor quality line to the exchange it can mean the difference between broadband working and not working.

The only dis-advantage is that there is only one place where ADSL is available. However the ADSL can be taken from the face plate socket an using telephone twisted pair taken to other ADSL sockets.

You can replace the front panel on the BT master box with the ADSL-NTEFACE face plate but using a separate PBX-NTE5 is easier.

Bernard

Sharnbrook




-

 

[Lectrician]

Or is short - Run a 3 pair telephone cable from front to back.

MAke sure you get CW1308 cable, and not the 'flat' cord the DIY stores sell.

If it was me, I would fit an a DSL face splitter to your main master socket, and then using the 3 pair telephone cable, run the DSL unfiltered pair AND the filtered voice side on the other pair, using one of the remaining cores as the bell (term 3).

At the computer end you would need a 2 module faceplate, and a secondary BT module and an RJ11 module.

I use this company:
http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm

They also sell the modules:
http://www.clarity.it/acatalog/modular_sockets.html






Anyway, thats the PRO way forward, but running standard phone cable to a standard phone socket is also perfectly acceptable.




Using cat5 is pointless really - The 4km back the exchange is CW1308, dating back SEVERAL years!!!

 

[adiwillow]

okay hang on.. so whats wrong with connecting the router via a filter direct to the master socket at its location, and running a network cat5 cable from the router to the back of the house, into a wall mounted network socket?

Isn't that just as good? Isnt the ADSL line meant to be as short as possible from the telephone socket?

I'm about to do this at the weekend.. hence the question. I have a master socket downstairs, and the comp upstairs.. i was going to dump the router downstairs and run the network cable upstairs to try and squeeze more perfomance out of the dsl line.

 

[bernardgreen]

okay hang on.. so whats wrong with connecting the router via a filter direct to the master socket at its location, and running a network cat5 cable from the router to the back of the house, into a wall mounted network socket

It won't work if you put the router via the filter.

But yes if you can put the router onto the line at the BT master and then run cat 5 to the computer location that is the best for the ADSL side of things.



But that still leaves the various phones and their wiring connected directly across the ADSL signal meaning each one has to have its own micro filter. If you change the face plate of the BT master to one with the ADSL filter in it all your phones and their wiring are effectively removed from the ADSL. They do not need individual micro-filters and the ADSL signal is not loaded by the phone wiring.

 

[Lectrician]

I think the OP has only one socket, and was going to add a second.

You can indeed put the router at the master socket, and run a network cable. However, you originally didn't say you where using a router, so we assumed a standard modem.

You will also have no telephone at the computer location if you run the cat5 for the network. Maybe you don't want one?

Just put in what you like. You can use cat5e as phone cable if you want.

 

[adiwillow]

sorry , i hope no one confused my post with the original posters.. i was just doing a quick thread hijack

Mine is a bit different.. so i'll start a new thread.

Thanks

 

[sm1thson]

so i'll start a new thread.

-that is a rule round this way!

 

[Andy77]

Firstly, thanks to everyone for all their comprehensive advice.

To clarify things for new posters with similar queries, the original set up does indeed just feature a single master socket at the point where the line enters the house in the front bedroom. As someone has said, yes I could just plug in the modem/router here (which it is at the moment), especially as its a wireless set-up, but I don't want to do this because the signal is then too weak at the back of the house where I will use the laptop mostly, plus I have a second desktop computer without wireless which needs to be plugged directly into the router.

I think the best solution that seems to be emerging is to run CW1308 telephone cable to a socket at the back of the house where I can plug in a phone and the wireless modem/router. There doesn't seem to be any point in running Cat 5 (thanks for letting me know the CW1308 standard by the way - didn't know about that). However, I will also look at Lectrician's suggestion this weekend when I have more time and brain space:

If it was me, I would fit an a DSL face splitter to your main master socket, and then using the 3 pair telephone cable, run the DSL unfiltered pair AND the filtered voice side on the other pair, using one of the remaining cores as the bell (term 3).

At the computer end you would need a 2 module faceplate, and a secondary BT module and an RJ11 module.

So thanks to bernardgreen and lectrician!

I could just leave it at that but I was also toying with the idea of extending the end of this line further to the room below (the kitchen) and installing a third phone point there, in which case I could pre-filter the line for ADSL (so the ADSL signal only goes as far as it has to).

I think this seems like the most sensible option. But I have one other small query too...

You know how I said that the master socket at the front is the only one at the moment? Well, that's not quite true - there is actually a (rather ropey) extension off this socket which goes back outside, down the front of the house and in to the front room below. I had planned to get rid of this (and just use a wireless phone in the living room below) because my understanding is that you can only daisychain one extension off one socket. Is this right? Or could I keep this extension?

Hope this all makes sense. Very grateful for help so far....

A

 

[MasterAbacus]

Why make this harder than it needs to be....

What ever way you choose there will be very little difference in performance for a home telephone / adsl connection.

the easy way is to do as you were going to.... Run a standard phone extention to the other side of your house, and connect the adsl modem to it....

Having the adsl modem near the incoming phone socket or far away from the socket will make no difference to a standard home user.

I know some people may disagree, but having many years installing telephone and network data cabling and equip i know a thing or two about this stuff.... it really isnt worth trying anything fancy or spending more than you need to for a simple home network. the speed difference in minscule.... if at all any different.

Why dont you do what i advise most people to do, and that run an telephone extension from you master socket to the back of where your tv will be... and then another extension from that to the spare bedroom (where most people keep ther computers btw)... and connect the adsl to that.

If you have the time you could then run a standard Cat5e data cable from the computer room to the back of the tv before the carpets are down then when the time comes to connect an adsl tv box or games console to you tv, you already have a cable in situ... just put standard rj45 wall sockets at either end of the cat5e, if the time comes and you want to add mor than one connection, then you just connect a hub to the wall socket.

feel free to ask if ive confused you in anyway, but it should be simple enough..

 

[PARTPISGREAT]

Don't know if it helps, but I've done exactly what MasterAbacus has advised (I'm not an expert by the way) - I've gone to the back of my tele from the master socket (for Sky) and then daisy chained from that to my spare room where my PC is. The internet speed i get is just under 7.5MB with no drop outs, so you can see it doesn't affect performance.

 

[bernardgreen]

For the majority of people the affect of house wiring on the ADSL signal is minimal.

BUT for those subscribers where the copper loop to the exchange is long or compromised giving high attentuation (reduction) of the ADSL some care is needed.

Poor or extended wiring in the house will reduce the available ADSL signal.

Internal wiring that is close to sources of radio frequency interference can conduct this into the router / modem and affect the ADSL signal leading to distorted data packets that have to be repeated.

Telephone wiring close to a TV or computer monitor can pick up significant levels of interence from the screen.


The data transmission rate ( bytes per second ) is high but some or many of these bytes are wasted on repeating corrupted packets so the over all information rate is reduced.

By connecting all phone wiring to a single ADSL filter as close as possible to the master socket prevents the phones and their wiring interfering with the ADSL signal.

NOTE...... The ADSL filters prevent ADSL signals getting into the phones and causing spurious sounds in the ear piece. They also prevent signals from the phone that would affect ADSL transmission.

My profesional experience includes the design of electronic telephone exchange equipment and other communication systems.

 

[Bigburn]

What is a PBX-NTE5 if I may ask ? .
I tried a search on solwise but nothing came up.

 

[bernardgreen]

What is a PBX-NTE5 if I may ask ? .
I tried a search on solwise but nothing came up.

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm

About two thirds of the way down the page

 

[Bigburn]

Thanks for that. Was sitting in front of my eyes all the time. Doh.

Is it possible to know the adsl download speed of ones connection ?.