Telephone master - am I totally stupid?

[bernardgreen]

The socket in the photo is a master socket in that it has the bell capacitor, the test resistor and the surge protection device.

However it is NOT the type of master that BT will willingly terminate THEIR incoming cable on. The incomer is terminated on the NETWORK TERMINATION EQUIPMENT which is often called an NTE5

The conductors in the incomer are connected to the BACK of the NTE5 out of reach of DIY fingers because that wiring belongs to BT.

The front plate of the NTE5 can be removed by DIY fingers. It has a plug on it which plugs into a socket in the back half ( the BT owned part ) of the NTE5 to make the connection to the telephone socket on the front and to the IDC ( insulation displacement connectors ) into which the DIY can press in the ends of the internal DIY wiring.

In the event of a fault the front plate of the NTE5 can be removed and a known working phone plugged into the socket of the back of the NTE5 for testing the line. BT test and work up to that socket as that is their property and their responsibility.

so you can push both the BT wires, and the wires off to the first extension into the same connectors?

No you cannot. The diameter of the incomer may not be the right diameter for the forks of the IDC connector. Two small ( unlikely ) and it will not make a good connection. Too large and it may force the forks apart loosening the connection to the other wire in the fork.

i

In your opinion would i be better off acquiring a NTE5 and replacing this altogether?

You would be better off getting BT to provide a NTE5 as only BT can provide (legally) a BT labelled NTE5

Depending how long the line has been out of use you may find the line has been "parked" at the exchange ( routine testing will have found not NTE5 on the line so will have asssumed it to be open ended and out of service ) so you may have to ask BT to re-connect the line. If a test then finds an NTE5 on the line they may ask questions.

 

[theflyingpig]

thanks for yet more clarity.

. . .

BT didn't seem to mind turning the line back on when it wasn't even connected to a master at all . . .

Its just two wires that don't carry any risk, so why would BT be bothered if a homeowner connects them theirselves? Can they demand access to my home? On what grounds?

 

[bernardgreen]

thanks for yet more clarity.

. . .

BT didn't seem to mind turning the line back on when it wasn't even connected to a master at all . . .

Its just two wires that don't carry any risk, so why would BT be bothered if a homeowner connects them theirselves? Can they demand access to my home? On what grounds?

Some years back a GPO technician was working in a road side junction box re-strapping connections between main cable from exchange when he slumped down onto the ground. Some one had a DIY home extension and somehow put 240 volts onto the phone line. The protection at the exchange had popped but the pair in the road side junction was still at 240 volts. He survived.

 

[theflyingpig]

gawd! that is almost unbelievable in that 'urban myth' type of way . . .

 

[securespark]

BT didn't seem to mind turning the line back on when it wasn't even connected to a master at all

I can't believe they'd willingly reconnect a line knowing that it wasn't connected to a socket.

 

[theflyingpig]

well, I didn't exactly tell them . . . .-

 

[Chri5]

Bernard

As you know, BT provided 2/1A master sockets as NTE's from 1983 (the advent of krone IDC) to about 1988 when the NTE was decided as the best way forward.
The reason was simple, to allow non tooled separation of BT to customer owned internal wiring.

As you also say, BT external cable- 2 wire bell type stuff was the older spec and still exists today. Where it does, it is normally converted to the standard 0.5mm CW spec cable size via BT 81A, BT 52 (soap bar) or any of 'x' numbers of types of intermediate junction.

Because it had already been mentioned that the external cable is 4 wire, this would suggest it is a drop wire. The drop wire can be connected directly to the krone terminations of a master 2/1A without issue of mechanical damage or IDC jaw opening since it is 0.5mm core size.

Regarding the BT say don't do this and that, I agree that in the real world BT would provide a NTE box.
However real world and practical, 'now' worlds can be far removed.

In all honesty, unless BT have a fault condition passed back to the exchange on the line due to incorrect terminations, how will they ever know?

I (as you, I think) worked for BT for 6 years as a business systems fitter, I have used BT D&E side records- they are always vague (other than routing) and tend not to show the line termination equipment,

So if there's no record at BT of a NTE box or 2/1A being used as a NTE box, they are none the wiser (wink, nudge)

 

[masona]

You would be better off getting BT to provide a NTE5 as only BT can provide (legally) a BT labelled NTE5

I has a line fault last year and BT engineer changed my old master socket as above for free, the engineer told me not everyone do it but they suppose to upgrade them so you will know if the line fault is on your side or their side before calling them out. They won't come and just change the master socket unless they are working in your house or you have problem with your phone.

 

[bernardgreen]

BernardI (as you, I think) worked for BT for 6 years as a business systems fitter, I have used BT D&E side records- they are always vague (other than routing) and tend not to show the line termination equipment,

Chris

I worked with GPO and BT on various comms systems. PSTN and private wire in connection ( pun intended ) with radio comms and area wide paging systems. Also in Germany on exchange design and worse case subscriber abuse.

The records are bit lax as regards to what is at the the end of the loop for the vast majority of lines but once a line arouses special "interest" the records do become more "accurate".

 

[ugjointer]

Flyingpig,Ist of all,are the wires that you are talking about definately coming from the telegraph pole or junction box situated on the outside wall,ie are you sure it's the incoming line.If you have taken the line over legally from an outgoing tenant then everything should have been left in working order and this would have been tested by the customer service people or the exchange staff.They can tell by testing the line what is on your end of the line,master socket ect.If the line tested disconnected or faulty an engineer visit would be required.I presume you have registered the line in your name.As I have asked at the beginning is this the incoming line .,Never assume the obvious when taking over a phone line if somebody else has been doing a bit of DIY on it.

 

[JOHNBOY42]

The 4 wires coming into the premises is called dropwire 10,it has 2 pairs and the working line will be orange/white and the spare pair is green/black and they are only used when a 2nd line is required,as suggested you have a old master socket 2/1a and Openreach (part of the Bt business group ) have a obligation to upgrade to a NTE5 so that a end user (you) can seperate the BT monopoly wiring from the customers extension wiring under ofcom regulations,,,,call them and speak to the call centre in THIS country and explain your problem if they quote charges of £116.25 for a call out just explain the last paragraph and ask to speak to a floorwalker (supervisor) and this should be a foc conversion and if no joy tell them you are going to raise a customer complaint (cch issue) as they tend to get looked at on a more serious note

 

[theflyingpig]

thanks all for further information. I bought a multimeter at eh weekend and ID'd the wires - reading -50v between one and earth as suggested earlier. however that ididn't seem to change when i rang the line from mobile, though i could hear it ringing . .
looks like I'm goign to hae to involve the BT ....

 

[Softus]

thanks all for further information. I bought a multimeter at eh weekend and ID'd the wires - reading -50v between one and earth as suggested earlier. however that ididn't seem to change when i rang the line from mobile, though i could hear it ringing . .
looks like I'm goign to hae to involve the BT ....

I've read through this topic and your approach to this problem is ludicrous.

If you've paid BT for a line then they will provide and install the NTE5 as part of the job.

If you haven't paid BT then you won't get a service, even if you install a master socket yourself. Getting a ringing tone when you call the number means nothing.

FFS.

 

[theflyingpig]

was trying to avoid haivng to pay 120 quid for BT to connect 2 wires.

the knowledge and information imparted on this thread will most probably enable me to to that.

thanks to all contributors

 

[Softus]

was trying to avoid haivng to pay 120 quid for BT to connect 2 wires.

It's like trying to have a conversation with a loudspeaker.

Have you, or have you not, paid BT anything, and, if so, how much, and to do what?

the knowledge and information imparted on this thread will most probably enable me to to that.

It won't. You can't gain a phone line just by adding a master socket to a pair of wires.