Terrible Condensation

[yartin]

I wouldn't worry too much about it, doubt anything wrong with your house. Condensation on windows in the mornings is common, happen to my house built in 1960 cavity and insulated, roof insulated and PVC double glazed windows. Nowadays I even get condensation on windows from outside, same with my neighbours. It's the cold and humid weather. I wipe windows in the mornings with a rug leave open for 30 mins, sorted. Keep furniture at least an inch away from walls to avoid mould.

Re: PVC DG windows from 2005 should be fine but changing seals is cheap, DIY and may make a difference.

 

[^woody^]

I would forget leaks, forget seals, forget roofs and forget everything else as a cause for condensation. If you have severe condensation then any leak, or structural dampness that may cause it would be plainly and obviously visible.

That leaves the occupant's use of the building as the cause, and the building's inability to deal with the excess humidity created by the occupant.

Timber frames are less able to deal with internal humidity and so ventilation of the rooms is important. How are you ventilating?
Do the windows have trickle vents? How do you use the operable windows?

Heating itself can create condensation when the air cools. What are your heating patterns? What system do you have?

Extract ventilation in kitchens and bathrooms is important. Do you have extract fans to the external air? If so, how are they used?

Is the loft insulated? How deep?

Do you have pets?
Fish tanks?
Number of occupants?
Number of rooms?

Do you close doors? Does the kitchen have a door, or is it a kitchen/diner?

When did this condensation start? Since you moved in? One year? Seasonally?

Fundamentally, you are causing the condensation. What you need to determine is whether you need to change your habits, or change the building, but you need to think about how you are living first - and that is not to say that you are doing anything particularly wrong; you may or may not be, but you are doing something and you need to determine what.

 

[JohnD]

A leak under the floor, or in a pipe buried in a concrete floor, is not plainly and obviously visible.

Neither is it rare.

 

[Vicki29]

I open the windows for a while each day but as the house doesn’t maintain heat at all it’s absolutely freezing with the windows closed never mind when they’re open.

We have a combi boiler and just put the heating on when we are desperate as it would run all day but as soon as the heating goes off the house is back to freezing again.

we don’t have trickle vents in any of the windows but we do have extractors in both the bathroom and the kitchen and they are both ran to outside.

I have only lived here since October 2019 and each year from September until about may we have this issue.

I e literally tried everything suggested online and it’s a complete mystery to me. The only thing left for me to try is to take the white seal from around all the windows externally and do it again.

 

[^woody^]

A leak under the floor, or in a pipe buried in a concrete floor, is not plainly and obviously visible.

Neither is it rare.

LOL

As a cause of condensation it's as rare as rocking horse shiit

 

[^woody^]

I open the windows for a while each day but as the house doesn’t maintain heat at all it’s absolutely freezing with the windows closed never mind when they’re open.

We have a combi boiler and just put the heating on when we are desperate as it would run all day but as soon as the heating goes off the house is back to freezing again.

we don’t have trickle vents in any of the windows but we do have extractors in both the bathroom and the kitchen and they are both ran to outside.

I have only lived here since October 2019 and each year from September until about may we have this issue.

I e literally tried everything suggested online and it’s a complete mystery to me. The only thing left for me to try is to take the white seal from around all the windows externally and do it again.

Right, it seems to me you are doing things wrong, and its seasonal condensation not from a leak or structural damp

Turing the heating on and off or only on "when you are desperate" is a major cause of creating excess humidity. What happens is that you heat up the air, and then when that air cools, it condenses - either directly on your windows, or into the plasterboard walls and that moisture then evaporates later and floats around in the colder air and settles on the windows. As you have a timber frame, the walls are not soaking the moisture up or evening out the temperature changes, the rooms and the walls are just going from hot to cold with very little in between - and is a major problem for stopping condensation.

You need to have more even heating patterns throughout the day

Also consider some better heating controls, radiator TRV's, and checking that the radiators are suitably sized for the rooms - so that they actually heat the room up and keep it warm

Likewise, opening windows "for a while" does exactly the same thing - rapidly changing air temperatures to create condensation - let alone just letting in cold damp air. What should happen is you move air around via smaller openings (trickle vents or one window opener per room on the night vent setting) for longer - all day or night.

And you should wipe up any condensation on windows daily.

It will take a while (literally over one year or so) for a house to settle down and moisture levels stabilise if you implemented the above - and sometimes its not even possible.

So if you feel that you are not able to do the above, or you have done what you reasonably could do, then the only practical alternative is for you to consider fitting a "Positive Pressure" fan. This will constantly push air around your whole house, and should remove all condensation.

positive pressure fan uk - Google Search

See if you have a service at your local council where they provide energy advice or recommend someone who can. This should be not to sell you products, but to advise on suitable methods or uses.

Property Care Association - Home (property-care.org) has members who can advise, but advice should always me from firms that are not going to sell you the soliutions they recommend

 

[BlueLoo]

Great post

 

[Vicki29]

Woody, what would you recommend I run the heating at then as with it being such a cold house the heating never reaches a comfortable level. When I moved in I had all the radiators replaced but it is only a one pipe system. Not sure what that means but the plumber said that one pipe systems aren’t as good as normal 2 pipe systems.

 

[^woody^]

only a one pipe system

That could certainly be the cause of your poor room temperatures, and may well be a significant factor for your condensation problem.

A one pipe system is an inefficient out dated method, and leads to uneven heating around the house - the radiators nearer the boiler and first in line get hotter than those further away.

It might be worth getting a competent independent heating engineer around to advise on a replacement system, or a trustworthy installation firm to advise and quote.

Ask the question in the heating forum and others there may advise.

 

[BlueLoo]

Sounds like it needs modern(appropriate) insulation, ventilation and heating installed.

 

[^woody^]

Sounds like it needs modern(appropriate) insulation, ventilation and heating installed.

Insulation in a timber framed house can not be easily upgraded - and this type of lightweight construction should be experiencing excess humidity anyway. The way to equalising the internal humidity must be achieved by other methods

 

[BlueLoo]

Insulation in a timber framed house can not be easily upgraded - and this type of lightweight construction should be experiencing excess humidity anyway. The way to equalising the internal humidity must be achieved by other methods

I think the wsy i would go would be to have a survey done and then make sure everything is best practice as far as i could.

 

[JohnD]

Likewise, opening windows "for a while" does exactly the same thing - rapidly changing air temperatures to create condensation - let alone just letting in cold damp air.

sorry, Woody, but you are not describing the effects of ventilation correctly.

Let's start by agreeing that, in the UK in winter, the air inside the house is warmer than the air outside the house.

What you describe as "cold damp air" is actually cold air, which (maybe) has higher Relative Humidity that the air inside the house.

But relative humidity only describes the amount of water the air holds, as a percentage of its maximum, AT THAT TEMPERATURE.

The air inside the house is warmer, and will contain more water, even if its RH is lower.

if you bring that cold air inside the house, and its temperature increases, its Relative Humidity will drop. Since, at the moment it arrives inside the house, it is a lower temperature than the structure and contents of the house, it will not form condensation on those materials.

Removing the warm air from inside the house, with its burden of water, and replacing it with cooler air from outside, which contains less water, will reduce the amount of water in the house. As it warms, its relative humidity will drop and it will dry out the materials in the house.

A cubic metre of hot, dry air in the Sahara contains more water that a metre of cold, damp air in Manchester.

But its Relative Humidity is lower.

Ventilation will reduce moisture in the house.

 

[Deleted member 292770]

I really can’t afford to be running dehumidifiers in every room

One decent dehumidifier running constantly in most properties is adequate. And cheap to run.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Only an issue if it's rainwater, no?

It'll give a clue about the thermal performance of the existing glazing- if the new pane doesn't fog up then it's one symptom solved (tho maybe not the disease). The 'seals' are probably just the usual window fitters substitute for measuring up properly, may be getting cold air behind the frame but without a pic, hard to tell