The house that Jackass built

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Here's another one for you switched on sparkies. :)

Our house is a right nightmare, everything is bodged and i'm concerned about the electrics seen as the bulbs are always popping,but thats another issue - anyway

Whenever either the oven, kettle, microwave are in use, it seems to have some interference with my computer monitor in the living room, the screen will start to go fuzzy and warble that bad that it makes you dizzy.
Its definately worse when the oven is on.

I've tried all the different refresh rates and resolutions, different monitors grafix cards etc and its still there. I was advised to buy a UPS to seize EMF etc but that failed to work too.

the oven is electric - gas hob under 3000 Watt so thats on a 13amp fuse plugged into a standard socket.

Does anyone have any idea what could be the cause of this.
My computer is in the corner of the living room right under the consumer unit which is attached in a box close to the ceiling.

Thanx for any help

JONIfresh
 
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popping bulbs is caused by either overvoltage at supply point (which you can't do much about) or swiches that don't switch cleanly switch (which you fix by replaceing them)

id say its a good idea to get a sparky to do a full test and inpect on your system as interference could be indicateing poor earthing
 
jonifresh said:
My computer is in the corner of the living room right under the consumer unit which is attached in a box close to the ceiling.
Err... so what happens when you move the computer somewhere else?
 
Had exactly the same myself recently.
Had an extension done to the back of my kitchen. Old kitchen now a breakfast room/study.
PC monitor would cycle between going blurred then clear.
tried another monitor and a new graphics card - nil fix.
Physically moved the pc to another part of the room and still got interference.

Found by powering the pc on an extension lead from the lounge and depowering the breakfast room/kitchen circuit - no interference.
Turned the breakfast room/kitchen circuit on, and tried various appliences.

Fridges and freezers caused no interference, but tumble dryer did (even when the pc was powered by a different ring!) Thought it may be "motor" related as the washing machine when "rotating" caused interference, but not when just filling.

Told my wife I thought I had tracked down the cause. She said "well done, do you want a cuppa"
When she put the kettle on - interference started! Dam dam dam.

When the extension was built, the spark found the original kitchen ring was open. When built 14 years previously, one of the the boiler mounting rails screws was drilled through the negative conductor - opening the ring.
He isolated the severed loop section and laid in a new cable -closing the loop. So sure was he that the problem had been fixed, he didn't re check the ring(!).

The PC was plugged into a socket on the "kitchen side" of this break, on the first socket in from the CU.

I went back into the socket below the boiler where the new cable had been joined. I found that the new cable that he had installed - the black wire had not been connected, leaving the ring open as a large spur.

I checked for shorts to earth, then reconnected the black wire. Power on and bingo - with the kitchen heavily loaded (kettle, m/wave, t/dryer, wash machine on and heating and dishwasher in heat cycle) - no interference.

The monitor was obviously picking up a/c frequency interference from the open ring main (all power coming from one side of the ring only - see the first hyperlink below).

Get yourself a ring tester and check that the ring is actualy a ring!
Otherwise try depowering DECT phones nearby, PC speakers or TV set as these can also cause interference (magnetic).

Here are some links to good info on the web:-

http://www.waterwheel.com/Guides/Trouble_Shooting/monitor/monitors.htm

http://www.fms-corp.com/monitorinterference.htm

http://www.nrl.moh.govt.nz/is23.pdf

http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_interference_causes_problems/

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/comp99/CS047.htm

Good luck and please let us know how you get on.
Paul Lane
 
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Wow i can't believe that someone else suffered from the same problem.
I will certainly look into what you have said but i've very little knowledge on electrics, so it may be worth getting a pro to have a look.

Will keep you informed :LOL:
 
Joni,
It was one of those really frustrating problems that you think - I'll never fix this one. I was thinking I would have to make an earthed metal screened box for the monitor, or revise my whole plan on the location of the study - drastic stuff indeed.

From what you have said, the culprit is defo the kitchen ring. Have any modifications been made to this circuit during your occupancy? Basically, if my theory is right, there will be one socket or FCU that may have been added to the ring by opening the ring and only re-connecting one side.

The tester will confirm if the ring is open. But I dont think it will show where the "break is". After confirming it's open, you will need to look into every socket/fcu to check that both sides of the ring are connected. If these are all ok - a power off job.
You would also need to check at the CU to check at both ends of the ring are terminated correctly. One for the pro's this, unless you are very competant.

If all of the above is in order, the continuity will need to be checked out socket/fcu to socket/fcu (in case someone has fixed a kitchen cabinet to the wall and drilled through the wiring!) in turn. A quick visual check of the locations of all wall hung items (ie are the mounting screws directly in line above/below sockets/fcu's) could be done in minutes.

If your kitchen floor is concrete, then the ring wiring will (most likely) go from each socket, up into the ceiling, then across (under the floor above) and down into the next socket/fcu along. If the house is older, with floorboards, the wiring may go down, along under the floor, then back up again to the next.

The continuity checking can start between a socket/fcu and one, say, 3 steps along the circuit. Then, if you find a problem in any group of sockets/fcu's, you can break them down further.
To check the continuity, both sides of the ring in each socket/fcu should be removed from that socket and its neighbour, and ring the wiring out between them.

If you are not that competant with a multimeter, then get the spart to do this for you. Neware that it could be time consuming, but I doubt the parts bill will be much!

Of course, all of this is assuming that you have an open kitchen ring main.
I would advise having it checked sooner rather than later, as a kitchen is a high load for a long spur!

Paul
 
Engineer Lane said:
When built 14 years previously, one of the the boiler mounting rails screws was drilled through the negative conductor - opening the ring.
There's no negative in AC wiring. I know you mean the neutral, but you should use the correct terms, or you might confuse people who don't know much.

the black wire had not been connected, leaving the ring open as a large spur.
No - not a large spur. If both conductors had been broken you'd have had two radials - not sure what the term is for what you had.

Get yourself a ring tester and check that the ring is actualy a ring!
What is a "ring tester", and how does it work?

From what you have said, the culprit is defo the kitchen ring.
Somewhat of a leap to say it is definitely a problem with the kitchen ring - you don't even know that there is a separate circuit for the kitchen, or if there is, whether it's a ring or a radial. Also Jonifresh's computer is in the corner of the living room right under the consumer unit. Maybe there's absolutely nothing wrong with the wiring, it's just too close.

The tester will confirm if the ring is open.
How will it do that?

But I dont think it will show where the "break is". After confirming it's open, you will need to look into every socket/fcu to check that both sides of the ring are connected. If these are all ok - a power off job.
You would also need to check at the CU to check at both ends of the ring are terminated correctly. One for the pro's this, unless you are very competant.
IF you're right about the break in the ring cable, then sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that the break may be in the cable between the CU and the first accessories on the ring. If you don't think that someone should disconnect or even inspect the connections at the CU, then you're suggesting an awful lot of work which might not yield any results.

If all of the above is in order, the continuity will need to be checked out socket/fcu to socket/fcu (in case someone has fixed a kitchen cabinet to the wall and drilled through the wiring!) in turn. A quick visual check of the locations of all wall hung items (ie are the mounting screws directly in line above/below sockets/fcu's) could be done in minutes.
And what if they look like they might be? The only way to find out would be to start diving into the middle of the circuit, which is not what the first step should be. This is not a very "engineer-like" approach to problem solving!

The continuity checking can start between a socket/fcu and one, say, 3 steps along the circuit. Then, if you find a problem in any group of sockets/fcu's, you can break them down further.
To check the continuity, both sides of the ring in each socket/fcu should be removed from that socket and its neighbour, and ring the wiring out between them.
That's a ludicrous way to check the continuity of a ring.

If you are not that competant with a multimeter, then get the spart to do this for you. Neware that it could be time consuming, but I doubt the parts bill will be much!
Actually it won't be time consuming, as that's not the way that anybody would check it.

This is what you do.

1) Turn off the power, either all of it, or just the circuit in question, depending on how neatly the CU is wired, how well shielded the neighbouring MCB connection are, how easy the access is, and how comfortable you are with working on one MCB with live ones next to it. I would advise that the default position be to turn it all off, unless you are very happy that you don't need to - it would only be for a few minutes.

If you're not happy with doing any of this, and you really believe that the interference you're getting is because there is a break in one of your circuits, then I guess you'll have to get an electrician in.

2) Disconnect both ends of the live, neutral and earth conductors.

3) Check for continuity of each conductor. If all 3 are OK, then you do not have a break in the ring, you can reconnect everything and start looking for something else to worry about.

4) Only if not, at this stage do you have to start the more time consuming task of finding the break. Reconnect one end of the cable to the CU, make the other safe with chock-block, and go from socket to socket until you find the first dead one. (If the break was in the earth then you'll have to check with a long-lead multimeter or one of those socket testers that indicates missing earth.)

5) When you've found the last live and first dead sockets, turn off the power again, take them both off the wall, and if the problem isn't obvious (i.e. a cable not connected), disconnect the cable that runs between them and verify that you have found the length of cable with the break.

6) Replace it, put everything back, and repeat steps 1-3 to verify that you've fixed the cable.

7) Hope that this has cured your interference problem, and that it wasn't just that the monitor was too close to the circuit supplying the kitchen anyway....
 
Ban,
Great advice from a Pro.
Do you have to be such a pedant though!

You may consider my approach "not very Engineer like" but I fixed mine didn't I?
Who left it in the poor condition in the first place. Oh yes, a Professional spark!

The spark who tested my ring had a thing you plugged in and it showed that current was/was not coming from both sides of the socket.
What do you call it? .............actually I don't care.

All I ever try to do here is give a bit of help. Why can you just come on here and say "Hi Joni, Paul's advice seems to be based on a good theory, but here's prehaps a better way of fault finding it"
But, as ever, you have to quote the bug*ery out of my "help" and try to break the world record for sarcasm in one post!

One day you will learn manners and the art of forum posting so as not to be so freeking offensive.

I've had it with this board!

Good luck Joni, hope you fix it/get it fixed either way (which is what I was trying to help you to do, before I was roasted alive by ban - who should be banned, or gagged).
 
Engineer Lane said:
The spark who tested my ring had a thing you plugged in and it showed that current was/was not coming from both sides of the socket.
What do you call it? .............actually I don't care.
By the time the supply has reached the terminals of anything plugged into a socket there is absolutely no way to tell whether it got there down one cable or two. Was this the same spark that left a neutral unconnected?

And anyway - if you think that there is such a device, and that Jonifresh should get one, you should care what it's called.

All I ever try to do here is give a bit of help. Why can you just come on here and say "Hi Joni, Paul's advice seems to be based on a good theory,
Trouble is, it's not...

But, as ever, you have to quote the bug*ery out of my "help" and try to break the world record for sarcasm in one post!
There was no sarcasm in my post.

One day you will learn manners and the art of forum posting so as not to be so freeking offensive.
You call yourself "Engineer Lane", and I said that a fairly un-methodical plan for fault finding was not engineer-like. I also said that your method of trying to decide if there was a continuity problem by checking little bits of the ring at a time rather than the whole thing in one go was ludicrous.

Hardly "freeking offensive".

I've had it with this board!
Goodbye.
 
Dingbat leaps to the rescue with Liverpudlian style diplomacy...

I'm back BTW!!

A week in Crete! (Hurrah!!)

With the kids (Boo!!)

And my wife (£$%£*&!!)

So a big "Kalimera!!" to everyone!!

Don't get it confused with "kalimari"...you'll get exceedingly funny looks...
 
Kalispera! (Now we both got the wrong time of day!) And welcome back. Holiday? You take holidays?
 
securespark said:
Don't get it confused with "kalimari"...you'll get exceedingly funny looks...

Well, at least it's on the current subject of rings! :D
 

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