The Part P scam

[Milligan]

Where to begin;

If you read my post it says "I'm not saying that sparks are dishonest but...there are a cowboys." Are you saying there aren't MOT's who con people into replacing things they don't need? Anyway, it's a tangent, I shall leave it at that.

Not sure how you concluded that I am saying there was not a purpose when I clearly stated that it is "defeating the purpose". It is quite clear what the original purpose was but the cost of adhering is prohibitive which means people will take shortcuts which are likely to be unsafe - hence defeating the purpose. Is that clear?

In short, yes, I am complaining about the cost!

I have got electricians in to provide quotes on this job, £250 is about the average, which I am happy to pay and have invited 2 electricians (1 after the other) to come and complete the work.

They didn't bother turning up. So, I must conclude that it is not commercially viable for them to do small jobs as the notification fee + parts and labour doesn't make it worth while.

So, my alternative is to do the work myself and then pay someone £190 (just shy of what it would cost for a spark to do it) to come and look at it... That is just stupid and suggests that the sparks (or my) effort + parts is only worth £60.

As for your comment on designing and fitting a circuit - I sincerely think you are overstating the complexity of this piece of work. This is a case of cookie-cutting the design, parts list and procedure from any one of many DIY books available. I would challenge you to say otherwise.

Finally, when I started this thread I was somewhat animated by my conversation with a dullard council employee jobsworth. It is, and was not my intention to snipe at anyone on this forum but I fail to see any thread in your argument that suggests that the regulations are, in any way, well executed or implemented. Note I did not say conceived.


P.S. Google "Council MOT station", you might save yourself a few quid next time. But whatever you do, don't work on your car. You need a qualified mechanic to change a headlamp bulb...

 

[Johnmelad502]

There used to be some on the site, but it's been a while.

Used to be some what on site?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Sellafield isn't a nuclear power station

There used to be some on the site, but it's been a while. If that electrician's training dated back to those days then he's a bit out of date.

I've never understood why people think that an "xxx in a nuclear power station" is necessarily anything special anyway. I expect Sellafield employs car park attendants, canteen cooks and office cleaners, but I don't suppose they are any different to any other car park attendants, canteen cooks or office cleaners.

What does Homer Simpson do?

Mind you, there used to be a very fit cleaner at BNFL in Warrington who wore a bikini to work in hot weather....

theres just no stopping you is there?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Where to begin;

how about writing all this in a letter to your MP?

If you read my post it says "I'm not saying that sparks are dishonest but...there are a cowboys." Are you saying there aren't MOT's who con people into replacing things they don't need? Anyway, it's a tangent, I shall leave it at that.

same could be said about any role that involves some element of sales, far too broad a topic to bother with.

Not sure how you concluded that I am saying there was not a purpose when I clearly stated that it is "defeating the purpose". It is quite clear what the original purpose was but the cost of adhering is prohibitive which means people will take shortcuts which are likely to be unsafe - hence defeating the purpose. Is that clear?

In short, yes, I am complaining about the cost!

Why not complain to the organ grinder(MP) and not the monkeys. Electricians didn't make the law and i doubt you'll find many who are happy about it either.

I have got electricians in to provide quotes on this job, £250 is about the average, which I am happy to pay and have invited 2 electricians (1 after the other) to come and complete the work.

Sorry, 2 Electricians? -Would you care to expand on how this is/was going to happen?

They didn't bother turning up. So, I must conclude that it is not commercially viable for them to do small jobs as the notification fee + parts and labour doesn't make it worth while.

I'm not sure thats a sound conclusion. There may be other factors - How much moaning about cost did you do to the 2 electricians when they both quoted you?

So, my alternative is to do the work myself and then pay someone £190 (just shy of what it would cost for a spark to do it) to come and look at it... That is just stupid and suggests that the sparks (or my) effort + parts is only worth £60.

I'm sure your MP would be happy to listen to your vote, er i mean voice, it does sound rather silly doesn't it?

As for your comment on designing and fitting a circuit - I sincerely think you are overstating the complexity of this piece of work. This is a case of cookie-cutting the design, parts list and procedure from any one of many DIY books available. I would challenge you to say otherwise.

your right, its not complex at all. Would you care to prove or disprove our point of view by listing out exactly what you will need and how you will execute the task. I'm sure someone will be able to critique your method on its merit.

Finally, when I started this thread I was somewhat animated by my conversation with a dullard council employee jobsworth. It is, and was not my intention to snipe at anyone on this forum but I fail to see any thread in your argument that suggests that the regulations are, in any way, well executed or implemented. Note I did not say conceived.


P.S. Google "Council MOT station", you might save yourself a few quid next time. But whatever you do, don't work on your car. You need a qualified mechanic to change a headlamp bulb...

I don't think anyone is actually defending the situation, merely telling you like they see it..

 

[Milligan]

Yes, 2 electricians, as I said 1 first, then the other.

I contacted 1, got a quote and gave go ahead. Didn't pitch, couldn't contact him. Fine, move on.

Got second quote, same process. I am not in the habit of arguing about work of this nature. The quote did not seem unreasonable, it is a fair bit of work, there is the cost of parts to consider and I liked the chaps I spoke to so was prepared to take it on face value.

As it happens it is far more cost effective for me to get a spark to do it and I'd rather they did. It just hasn't worked out.

My post was a rant. It would seem people acknowledge this is a ridiculous situation and other feel it is perfectly sensible, so perhaps it is best left at that.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

OIC, i thought it had turned into a 2 man job

will you bother to write to you MP about the disgraceful mess this industry is in?

I think you mis-understood Mr.Sheds. He didn't say it was sensible as a whole, he merely stated 'how it is'.

Just for my own curiosity could you explain, in simple, terms how you would do this job? Im interested.

Before your current state of mind relaxes, please write to your MP about this.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not sure how you concluded that I am saying there was not a purpose when I clearly stated that it is "defeating the purpose".

Because first of all you said that it had a purpose, then you said it was a scam. Which is it?

It is quite clear what the original purpose was but the cost of adhering is prohibitive which means people will take shortcuts which are likely to be unsafe - hence defeating the purpose. Is that clear?

If you can out forward a logical argument as to why people can't do a safe job when they don't notify because they ignore that but they can do a safe job when they don't notify because notification is not required then it might be clear.

But right now no, it is not at all clear how the existence of the Building Regulations prevents people from doing a safe job.

In short, yes, I am complaining about the cost!

So what should the cost be? Should it be reduced by forcing council staff to take pay cuts, or by making council tax payers subsidise it?

They didn't bother turning up. So, I must conclude that it is not commercially viable for them to do small jobs as the notification fee + parts and labour doesn't make it worth while.

Since notification costs a registered electrician a few quid your conclusion is flawed.

That is just stupid and suggests that the sparks (or my) effort + parts is only worth £60.

No, it suggests that you don't know how much it costs a registered electrician to notify.

As for your comment on designing and fitting a circuit - I sincerely think you are overstating the complexity of this piece of work. This is a case of cookie-cutting the design, parts list and procedure from any one of many DIY books available. I would challenge you to say otherwise.

I say otherwise, and I look forward to your reply to mikhailfaradayski. I shall be particularly interested to find out what testing you would do, at what stages, with what equipment, and what results you would expect.

Finally, when I started this thread I was somewhat animated by my conversation with a dullard council employee jobsworth. It is, and was not my intention to snipe at anyone on this forum but I fail to see any thread in your argument that suggests that the regulations are, in any way, well executed or implemented. Note I did not say conceived.

In your case they are being executed and implemented exactly as conceived.

P.S. Google "Council MOT station", you might save yourself a few quid next time.

I thought MOT charges were officially prescribed?

 

[Paul_C]

In short, yes, I am complaining about the cost!

So what should the cost be?

A heck of a lot less than £190, or even £124, when all we're talking about is a simple addition like this.

Should it be reduced by forcing council staff to take pay cuts, or by making council tax payers subsidise it?

It should be reduced by scrapping all the excess waste which now permeates our local authorities. If you are seriously suggesting that the real cost in terms of a council employee's time plus the associated paperwork etc. is anywhere near those extortionate amounts, then it's pretty obvious that the system is so overburdened with red-tape that drastic action is needed to curb the excesses.

I thought MOT charges were officially prescribed?

The law sets a maximum which may be charged. There's nothing to stop somebody charging less.

 

[Steve]

I once recieved a £250 bag of 20p's, originally from Sellafield's staff canteen (sent through banks then to our shop) I didnt want to open it in case it was contaminated

On speaking to one of the guys on here (who works there as a spark), it seems they have a card system for lunch, they top up their card at a machine with loose change and then swipe the card to pay for lunch in the canteen.

 

[Johnmelad502]

I've never understood why people think that an "xxx in a nuclear power station" is necessarily anything special anyway. I expect Sellafield employs car park attendants,

Well they do carry guns with live rounds.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[Johnmelad502]

Gentlemen, I find it hard to believe that some of you can not appreciate that part p has nothing to do with improving standards or safety.

It has to do with lords and mp's approving the legislation in support of their sponsered back handers from their approved authorising authorities - simples.

I knowed that.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[Paul_C]

Gentlemen, I find it hard to believe that some of you can not appreciate that part p has nothing to do with improving standards or safety.

I find it incredible that some people think it perfectly reasonable to pay £190 (or more) to the local council to do a job which costs £20 in materials in one's own home. Especially when council tax has already doubled over the last decade yet the services it's supposed to provide have become progressively worse.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A heck of a lot less than £190, or even £124, when all we're talking about is a simple addition like this.

So what should it be?

Please provide a breakdown of all of the costs incurred and show why it should be a heck of a lot less.

It should be reduced by scrapping all the excess waste which now permeates our local authorities. If you are seriously suggesting that the real cost in terms of a council employee's time plus the associated paperwork etc. is anywhere near those extortionate amounts, then it's pretty obvious that the system is so overburdened with red-tape that drastic action is needed to curb the excesses.

What drastic action do you suggest?

Not keeping proper records of activities carried out in return for payment by members of the public?

Not having proper financial controls and accounting to deal with monies received from the public?

Not having services provided by competent people?

Not training people to maintain up to date competencies?

Not paying employees?

Not giving employees a pension?

Not giving employees stationery?

Not giving employees telephones??

Not giving employees IT systems?

Not giving employees office space or furniture?

Not giving employees admin assistance?

Not cleaning the buildings where they work?

Not providing security for the buildings where they work?

Not heating or lighting the buildings where they work?

Do tell.

The law sets a maximum which may be charged. There's nothing to stop somebody charging less.

OK