The phase out of ice engines..

[Brigadier]

In the case of the former 400-450m, the latter .. rarely.
Hybrids seem to be unpopular for some reason, but I would have thought a combination of battery traction for the regular sub 5 mile journeys with ICE back-up for when the battery range is exceeded, or 'someone' has forgotten to plug the thing in, would be ideal.

Maybe I'm missing something?

One night's charge (which, if you get a home charger and cheap overnight electric tariff) will cost you less than £3, will last you a fortnight or more at your mileages.

Home chargers can be had for sub-£500, installed.
I would also wager that they also add saleability and value to the house, as EVs are no longer rare as hen's teeth.

 

[robinbanks]

For some reason, that may not be a representative sample.

Feel free to counter it with an honest assertion that from those people you know personally to have owned hybrids, the majority still own them and rave about them as a markedly useful "best of both".

I'm not convinced it happens

Maybe I'm missing something?

I bought a penknife once that had all sorts of stuff built into it. I haven't yet thrown away my pliers, screwdrivers, hammer (no, really), knives etc

It's been done to death on DIYN in other threads but the general "can't be all things to all people" / "jack of all trades" seems to apply to hybrids; a weak, and comparatively thirsty fossil engine, a low electric-only range, that sometimes you can't charge them from a wall and what starts out on paper seeming a great idea ("carrying a spare engine with you at all times in case your other engine doesn't work for whatever reason, but still has to carry a load of extra weight that isn't used") that covers every use case, ends up doing a half assed job all round

 

[Brigadier]

Feel free to counter it with an honest assertion that from those people you know personally to have owned hybrids, the majority still own them and rave about them as a markedly useful "best of both".

We have a fleet of them at work.

Useless for what we do; thirstier than the previous diesels on the motorway, no advantages in urban use, more expensive and complex to repair, no cheaper to service, less reliable than the previous diesels..........

 

[norseman]

One night's charge (which, if you get a home charger and cheap overnight electric tariff) will cost you less than £3, will last you a fortnight or more at your mileages.

Home chargers can be had for sub-£500, installed.
I would also wager that they also add saleability and value to the house, as EVs are no longer rare as hen's teeth.

They are around here!
Out of around 170 homes there is just one BEV (a company car that is charged at the guy's place of work) & three hybrids, two of which are self-charging.

To be perfectly honest any interest I have in a plug-in hybrid is based on both reducing fuel costs & concern for increased wear/tear to a 2.5L ICE resulting from short journeys .. hence my original technical question.

 

[Avocet]

In the case of the former 400-450m, the latter .. rarely.
Hybrids seem to be unpopular for some reason, but I would have thought a combination of battery traction for the regular sub 5 mile journeys with ICE back-up for when the battery range is exceeded, or 'someone' has forgotten to plug the thing in, would be ideal.

Maybe I'm missing something?

You could get a hybrid and it would work for you - no question. How well it would work, is the question. A "mild" hybrid would feel just like an ICE car to drive and run. You'd hardly know the electric bit existed. Personally, I wouldn't bother, as any fuel savings are likely to vanish into overall running costs at such low annual mileages. I think it will just be an ICE car with more stuff to go wrong, to be honest.

The "self-charging hybrids" are really just "marketingspeak" for a hybrid that can't manage without its ICE engine and can't be plugged in. Some will have a very small amount of low speed electric-only range, but in low mileage applications, they tend to give their ICE engines a hard time, as they rarely use them and when they do, they don't use them for long, so the poor things rarely warm up properly. However, there are exceptions. Some are more like ICEs with a tiny bit of electric-only capability (often just car park speed manoeuvring), but others, are virtually electric vehicles with a small generator in the back. They have significant electric-only range (80 miles or so, in some cases, like the Golf e-hybrid) before they need to use their engine.

The "plug-in hybrids" vary enormously. Some (like the more "electric" of the self-charging hybrids), have a significant electric-only range - over 100 miles, so you get the real possibility that you can do most of your everyday journeys on electric-only. The downside is that you still end up servicing an engine each year, that has hardly run.

If it was me, I'd go fully-electric and forget about any engine-related hassle (servicing, cam belts, exhaust , DPFs, clutch, plugs, etc) forever. (But that's easy for me to say, because I am me)! No they won't do the claimed "official" range in real life - just like ICE cars don't, but most people will get at least 3/4 of it. You won't forget to plug it in, any more than you'll forget to fill an ICE car with fuel. For the longer runs, public charging isn't the nightmare that some would have you believe. If you like playing with "apps" on your phone, you can do cool things like warming it up before you leave the house, but you don't HAVE to do any of that if you don't want to. Unlike an ICE car, they will start blowing warm air into the cabin within a few seconds of startup. I would pick one that has a "CCS" charging socket, rather than the "ChADeMo" socket used on the early Leaf and some Renault, which is fast becoming the "Betamax" of charging sockets.

 

[Avocet]

They are around here!
Out of around 170 homes there is just one BEV (a company car that is charged at the guy's place of work) & three hybrids, two of which are self-charging.

To be perfectly honest any interest I have in a plug-in hybrid is based on both reducing fuel costs & concern for increased wear/tear to a 2.5L ICE resulting from short journeys .. hence my original technical question.

If you are disciplined enough to plug in a plug-in hybrid (and most folk aren't, they just buy them for the tax breaks but never bother plugging them in), then you could see very significant fuel savings. Obviously, it helps if you have a "night rate" electricity tariff of some sort. The "low tech" way is to plug them in when the electricity is cheap. The high tech way involves a degree of messing about with apps to set the timers on the charger so you can plug in at any time, but it only starts charging when it's cheap. As Brigadier says, on a long run, once the battery is depleted, they're pretty rubbish because they're just (often underpowered) ICEs, lugging a dead battery and electric motor around with them.

 

[norseman]

You could get a hybrid and it would work for you - no question. How well it would work, is the question. A "mild" hybrid would feel just like an ICE car to drive and run. You'd hardly know the electric bit existed. Personally, I wouldn't bother, as any fuel savings are likely to vanish into overall running costs at such low annual mileages. I think it will just be an ICE car with more stuff to go wrong, to be honest.

The "self-charging hybrids" are really just "marketingspeak" for a hybrid that can't manage without its ICE engine and can't be plugged in. Some will have a very small amount of low speed electric-only range, but in low mileage applications, they tend to give their ICE engines a hard time, as they rarely use them and when they do, they don't use them for long, so the poor things rarely warm up properly. However, there are exceptions. Some are more like ICEs with a tiny bit of electric-only capability (often just car park speed manoeuvring), but others, are virtually electric vehicles with a small generator in the back. They have significant electric-only range (80 miles or so, in some cases, like the Golf e-hybrid) before they need to use their engine.

The "plug-in hybrids" vary enormously. Some (like the more "electric" of the self-charging hybrids), have a significant electric-only range - over 100 miles, so you get the real possibility that you can do most of your everyday journeys on electric-only. The downside is that you still end up servicing an engine each year, that has hardly run.

If it was me, I'd go fully-electric and forget about any engine-related hassle (servicing, cam belts, exhaust , DPFs, clutch, plugs, etc) forever. (But that's easy for me to say, because I am me)! No they won't do the claimed "official" range in real life - just like ICE cars don't, but most people will get at least 3/4 of it. You won't forget to plug it in, any more than you'll forget to fill an ICE car with fuel. For the longer runs, public charging isn't the nightmare that some would have you believe. If you like playing with "apps" on your phone, you can do cool things like warming it up before you leave the house, but you don't HAVE to do any of that if you don't want to. Unlike an ICE car, they will start blowing warm air into the cabin within a few seconds of startup. I would pick one that has a "CCS" charging socket, rather than the "ChADeMo" socket used on the early Leaf and some Renault, which is fast becoming the "Betamax" of charging sockets.

Thank you for that in-depth appraisal, very informative

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Feel free to counter it with an honest assertion that from those people you know personally to have owned hybrids, the majority still own them and rave about them as a markedly useful "best of both".

I'm not convinced it happens

I service quite a few

Most people I know with hybrids either won't swap or will only go to full electric.

Probably see more than most, but I accept it's only anecdotal

I bought a penknife once that had all sorts of stuff built into it. I haven't yet thrown away my pliers, screwdrivers, hammer (no, really), knives etc

It's been done to death on DIYN in other threads but the general "can't be all things to all people" / "jack of all trades" seems to apply to hybrids; a weak, and comparatively thirsty fossil engine, a low electric-only range, that sometimes you can't charge them from a wall and what starts out on paper seeming a great idea ("carrying a spare engine with you at all times in case your other engine doesn't work for whatever reason, but still has to carry a load of extra weight that isn't used") that covers every use case, ends up doing a half assed job all round

Hybrids are not the best ever solution but are a good stepping stone for many to progress to before full EV.

Economy is generally still much better than pure petrol versions

 

[Brigadier]

Economy is generally still much better than pure petrol versions

We've found, for extended A road / motorway driving, it's much worse. c. 30% worse.

Smaller engine, more stressed (thrashed): the hybrid bit offers nothing in this sort of use.

 

[Avocet]

To be fair, if Norseman doesn't really do many motorway runs, that might not be such a big deal? If he gets a plug-in and plugs it in, it sounds like it will be an EV most of the time.

 

[Brigadier]

To be fair, if Norseman doesn't really do many motorway runs, that might not be such a big deal? If he gets a plug-in and plugs it in, it sounds like it will be an EV most of the time.

I was answering carnans post.

One size doesn't fit all.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

We've found, for extended A road / motorway driving, it's much worse. c. 30% worse.

Smaller engine, more stressed (thrashed): the hybrid bit offers nothing in this sort of use.

Fair point and every car will be different

But take. Honda CRV petrol pre hybrid versus petrol hybrid mpg.

Both the city and the overall mpg are noticeably better in the hybrid. Actual tests and mileage, not going on the official claimed figures.

And yes equally, there will be some the other way around.

But generally, for the average (non high mileage) user the hybrid will give better mpg.

Is it the best choice? No, not for all.

 

[flameport]

, but I would have thought a combination of battery traction for the regular sub 5 mile journeys with ICE back-up for when the battery range is exceeded,

Manufacturers and sellers of hybrid vehicles want people to believe that.

In reality, if the journey is longer than the range of the vehicle, you stop and charge.
If driving 100s of miles you will be stopping anyway for other reasons.
Even if you really wanted to drive some diesel banger for that 600 mile non stop journey while towing a caravan, vehicles can be rented for the day, week or whatever for such journeys.

You buy a vehicle that is suited to what it will be used for most of the time - not for that once a year unlikely journey.

or 'someone' has forgotten to plug the thing in,

People regularly 'forget' to put fuel in their ICE vehicles. Breakdowns due to running out of fuel are common even though they are totally avoidable.
People like that just can't be helped and will have endless problems regardless of what type of vehicle they have.

 

[Mottie]

Pretty sure our full hybrid car is better on fuel than the pure petrol or the mild hybrid version plus, with the same ICE in all of them, there’s a lot more power than the other two when you floor it as you use both power sources. I’ve had the electric motor cut in at over 70mph and go for a fair few miles. We did consider a plug in version which I understand is better still on fuel on regular shortish journeys but apart from the cost - @3k more - and this may seem strange to some, the main reason I chose the hybrid was the fact that there was no room for a spare wheel under the boot floor in a plug in! That was a deal breaker for me.

 

[Brigadier]

Fair point and every car will be different

But take. Honda CRV petrol pre hybrid versus petrol hybrid mpg.

Both the city and the overall mpg are noticeably better in the hybrid. Actual tests and mileage, not going on the official claimed figures.

And yes equally, there will be some the other way around.

But generally, for the average (non high mileage) user the hybrid will give better mpg.

Is it the best choice? No, not for all.

What I have stated - repeatedly - is that the following statements:

EVs are best

Diesels are best

Petrol is best

Hybrid is best

are bowlogs.


All are great for defined usages and, if your particular usage profile matches one of them, you're peachy.