Thermal Store - Odd dripping from F/E Tank Ballcock
- Thread starter Agile
- Start date
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wilhelm
yep....
where the sun dont shine.
where the sun dont shine.
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Oh, well thats good then why didn't they just delete the relevant bits instead of killing the whole topic.
Anyway, to continue my saga, I had a looksie at the F/E tank on Friday and still couldn't figure it out, so just flushed about 0.5s worth of water (as someone at work suggested there could actually just be dirt in the ballcock valve) and so far no more dripping. Although if there is a leak it may take a while to show up. (Its only been 4 days.
Its not conclusive so I will keep an eye on it but really wish there was someway for me to monitor the water level, there isn't really due to the position of the damn F/E tank.
Thanks for all the advice, and fingers crossed its not a leaking heat exchanger in the boiler.
I'll report back if anything changes.
Mike
why didn't they just delete the relevant bits instead of killing the whole topic.Anyway, to continue my saga, I had a looksie at the F/E tank on Friday and still couldn't figure it out, so just flushed about 0.5s worth of water (as someone at work suggested there could actually just be dirt in the ballcock valve) and so far no more dripping. Although if there is a leak it may take a while to show up. (Its only been 4 days.
Its not conclusive so I will keep an eye on it but really wish there was someway for me to monitor the water level, there isn't really due to the position of the damn F/E tank.
Thanks for all the advice, and fingers crossed its not a leaking heat exchanger in the boiler.
I'll report back if anything changes.
Mike
D
Doctor Drivel
Agile said:
Wisdom me boy. Wisdom! Do you need to be Corgi registered to say that?
Well the saga continues, I still get my dripping ballcock in the F/E tank. I am actually on British Gas homecare so gave up trying to figure this out myself and called the 'experts' in.
The first guy who turned up didnt have a clue and referred it to someone else who came, did a bit of messing around with the system, fitted a new pump on the boiler circuit and then ordered parts for the boiler (a completely unrelated problem). He seemed to think that its pumping over, and causing the ballcock to drip, I dont think he's right to be honest...
The original dripping ballcock problem is still with me. Although I seem to have narrowed it down quite a bit.
I have basically tested every combination of the boiler running, the central heating circuit running, the boiler not running but central heating running, water running with boiler on and off etc etc. Basically by controlling the tank thermostat to control if the boiler kicks in or not.
The system when using hot water always decides its going to top up the F/E tank even though it shouldn't be. It seems to only do it when I run hot water though. If I have the central heating circuit and pump running but turn the tank thermostat right down, the radiators run quite happily, the tank temperature drops by 20c and there is no dripping.
If I do the same with the hot water running, the dripping starts pretty much as soon as I have ran about 10 ltrs or so off even when the tank temp has not dropped 20c, if I keep running more and more off the dripping becomes a stream into the tank which lasts until I shut off the hot water, then drips for about 10-15 minutes longer.
The BG engineer is coming back on monday to fit the bits to the boiler so will see what he says when I mention all this to him, to me it must be something wrong with the thermal store but I cant think what, the BG engineer did say if there was a crack in the H/E of the tank then I would have a serious problem, as mains pressure water would be going into my tank, he said thats not happening as my F/E tank would be overflowing big time if that happened, which kind of makes sense.
So any ideas?
It doesnt seem to the boiler doing anything, its something between the tank and hot water feed, but I have no clue.
Ta,
Mike
The first guy who turned up didnt have a clue and referred it to someone else who came, did a bit of messing around with the system, fitted a new pump on the boiler circuit and then ordered parts for the boiler (a completely unrelated problem). He seemed to think that its pumping over, and causing the ballcock to drip, I dont think he's right to be honest...
The original dripping ballcock problem is still with me. Although I seem to have narrowed it down quite a bit.
I have basically tested every combination of the boiler running, the central heating circuit running, the boiler not running but central heating running, water running with boiler on and off etc etc. Basically by controlling the tank thermostat to control if the boiler kicks in or not.
The system when using hot water always decides its going to top up the F/E tank even though it shouldn't be. It seems to only do it when I run hot water though. If I have the central heating circuit and pump running but turn the tank thermostat right down, the radiators run quite happily, the tank temperature drops by 20c and there is no dripping.
If I do the same with the hot water running, the dripping starts pretty much as soon as I have ran about 10 ltrs or so off even when the tank temp has not dropped 20c, if I keep running more and more off the dripping becomes a stream into the tank which lasts until I shut off the hot water, then drips for about 10-15 minutes longer.
The BG engineer is coming back on monday to fit the bits to the boiler so will see what he says when I mention all this to him, to me it must be something wrong with the thermal store but I cant think what, the BG engineer did say if there was a crack in the H/E of the tank then I would have a serious problem, as mains pressure water would be going into my tank, he said thats not happening as my F/E tank would be overflowing big time if that happened, which kind of makes sense.
So any ideas?
It doesnt seem to the boiler doing anything, its something between the tank and hot water feed, but I have no clue.
Ta,
Mike
What make of store is it for starters and can you post a pic.
Reading the posts again (hence the mod) pumping over could be an option although not one I fancy. If the DHW is causing the valve to run, then you must have a connection between the tank and the dhw.
I still think the coil has gone, is there a non return valve on the cold mains to/from the tank.
Reading the posts again (hence the mod) pumping over could be an option although not one I fancy. If the DHW is causing the valve to run, then you must have a connection between the tank and the dhw.
I still think the coil has gone, is there a non return valve on the cold mains to/from the tank.
Can you confirm a couple of points please?
Is the hot water supplied at mains pressure and heated by passing through the thermal store?
Apart from the F&E tank on the top of the thermal store, do you have any other "tanks"?
If so what do they do ???
Is your boiler a pressurised system boiler with a gauge on the front?
Sorry if this duplicates some previous info but the deletion of your original posting has clouded the issue.
Tony
Is the hot water supplied at mains pressure and heated by passing through the thermal store?
Apart from the F&E tank on the top of the thermal store, do you have any other "tanks"?
If so what do they do ???
Is your boiler a pressurised system boiler with a gauge on the front?
Sorry if this duplicates some previous info but the deletion of your original posting has clouded the issue.
Tony
Hi,
Its been a long time since I have posted here, I have had British Gas down allot, trying to figure this out and for the moment they can't.
They thought pumping over at first, but changed the circulation pump on the boiler circuit (not the radiator circuit) and checked again and with further investigation it appears the dripping is not actually linked with the boiler or pumps running at all!!
As a test I ran both hot water and/or the radiator circuit to lower the temp in the tank. I tried both seperately, and both together. I also turned the tank thermostat down so the boiler did not kick in.
What happens is basically the tank drops temperature, and when its dropped a bit, usually over 10 degrees c the dripping will start. Its as though when the tank cools there is new water introduced into the system.
I cannot figure it out, and neither can BG. They replaced the ball valve and cock to rule that out and its still doing it.
>What make of store is it for starters and can you post a pic.
I am not sure what the make is, see these pics for some clues?
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9621/img0098ji3.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4815/img0099sf8.jpg
(ps: ignore the water marks around the Thermostatic Valve, this was leaking when I bought the house but I replaced the fibre washers and its been fine since, although thats on the mains pressure circuit anyway)
>Reading the posts again (hence the mod) pumping over could be an >option although not one I fancy. If the DHW is causing the valve to run, >then you must have a connection between the tank and the dhw.
BG thought this originally, but since the dripping is NOT when any pump is running they don't think its the case.
>I still think the coil has gone, is there a non return valve on the cold >mains to/from the tank.
When I said about the coil in tank and or boiler gone they seemed to suggest if that was the case "I would know about it. If in the tank, I would get mains pressure water leaking into the tank and that would cause the overflow to go."
Then when I said why not the boiler "I would see leaking at the boiler itself".
I am not sure thats right or not, the guy does seem knowlegable on these systems. I kinda see his point about the tank, and with respect to the boiler I am still not sure, whats thrown me is the fact it drips when the tank temp drops a fair amount (normal boiler cycling doesn't seem to trigger it) through use of hot water or central heating. It seems to be only when the drop is quite a lot after I have ran the heating for a while or ran hot water for a while.
I dont think there is a non-return valve, although not sure what it would look like. There doesnt seem to be anything like that in my pic.
>Is the hot water supplied at mains pressure and heated by passing >through the thermal store?
Yes
>Apart from the F&E tank on the top of the thermal store, do you have >any other "tanks"?
Nope
>Is your boiler a pressurized system boiler with a gauge on the front?
Its not a sealed system.
They also checked for leaks, he came one morning at 8am turned off the ballvalve to the F/E tank, then came the same day at about 5pm after a normal days running and no water was added to the system.
They thought a leak, but I cant see how a leak can be ONLY when the temperature in the tank drops. They were not convinced to changed the ballcock/valve. Still the same.. I am going mental with this now.
Going to ring BG tomorrow again as when they fitted the new ballvalve 2 weeks ago it was fine, but I think thats because he topped up the water level in the F/E tank.
Cheers,
Mike
Its been a long time since I have posted here, I have had British Gas down allot, trying to figure this out and for the moment they can't.
They thought pumping over at first, but changed the circulation pump on the boiler circuit (not the radiator circuit) and checked again and with further investigation it appears the dripping is not actually linked with the boiler or pumps running at all!!
As a test I ran both hot water and/or the radiator circuit to lower the temp in the tank. I tried both seperately, and both together. I also turned the tank thermostat down so the boiler did not kick in.
What happens is basically the tank drops temperature, and when its dropped a bit, usually over 10 degrees c the dripping will start. Its as though when the tank cools there is new water introduced into the system.
I cannot figure it out, and neither can BG. They replaced the ball valve and cock to rule that out and its still doing it.
>What make of store is it for starters and can you post a pic.
I am not sure what the make is, see these pics for some clues?
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9621/img0098ji3.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4815/img0099sf8.jpg
(ps: ignore the water marks around the Thermostatic Valve, this was leaking when I bought the house but I replaced the fibre washers and its been fine since, although thats on the mains pressure circuit anyway)
>Reading the posts again (hence the mod) pumping over could be an >option although not one I fancy. If the DHW is causing the valve to run, >then you must have a connection between the tank and the dhw.
BG thought this originally, but since the dripping is NOT when any pump is running they don't think its the case.
>I still think the coil has gone, is there a non return valve on the cold >mains to/from the tank.
When I said about the coil in tank and or boiler gone they seemed to suggest if that was the case "I would know about it. If in the tank, I would get mains pressure water leaking into the tank and that would cause the overflow to go."
Then when I said why not the boiler "I would see leaking at the boiler itself".
I am not sure thats right or not, the guy does seem knowlegable on these systems. I kinda see his point about the tank, and with respect to the boiler I am still not sure, whats thrown me is the fact it drips when the tank temp drops a fair amount (normal boiler cycling doesn't seem to trigger it) through use of hot water or central heating. It seems to be only when the drop is quite a lot after I have ran the heating for a while or ran hot water for a while.
I dont think there is a non-return valve, although not sure what it would look like. There doesnt seem to be anything like that in my pic.
>Is the hot water supplied at mains pressure and heated by passing >through the thermal store?
Yes
>Apart from the F&E tank on the top of the thermal store, do you have >any other "tanks"?
Nope
>Is your boiler a pressurized system boiler with a gauge on the front?
Its not a sealed system.
They also checked for leaks, he came one morning at 8am turned off the ballvalve to the F/E tank, then came the same day at about 5pm after a normal days running and no water was added to the system.
They thought a leak, but I cant see how a leak can be ONLY when the temperature in the tank drops.
They were not convinced to changed the ballcock/valve. Still the same.. I am going mental with this now.Going to ring BG tomorrow again as when they fitted the new ballvalve 2 weeks ago it was fine, but I think thats because he topped up the water level in the F/E tank.
Cheers,
Mike
Yep Id suspect the coil has done too.
In the tank or the boiler?
If tank, why am I not getting mains pressure water rushing into the tank, which would then run into the expansion tank and trigger the overflow? Also why am I not getting comtaminated/dirty water from my hot water taps?
If boiler, why does it do it when the boiler is not running or ciculating water? Also why is there no evidence of leak at the boiler, even when the casing was taken off by the engineer?
Can someone please explain the two points above so I can take it up with the engineer tomorrow. If it is a coil gone I just want to be able to explain it to the engineer, because last time he was having none of it and his arguments against it seemed sound.
Cheers,
Mike
If tank, why am I not getting mains pressure water rushing into the tank, which would then run into the expansion tank and trigger the overflow? Also why am I not getting comtaminated/dirty water from my hot water taps?
If boiler, why does it do it when the boiler is not running or ciculating water? Also why is there no evidence of leak at the boiler, even when the casing was taken off by the engineer?
Can someone please explain the two points above so I can take it up with the engineer tomorrow. If it is a coil gone I just want to be able to explain it to the engineer, because last time he was having none of it and his arguments against it seemed sound.
Cheers,
Mike
Could it just be the water level in the F/E tank is a bit high, so as things warm up the water expands and overflows, then contracts with cooling and gets topped up again ready to overflow on the next cycle?
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