Tile adhesive and grout - Which?

[firapara]

Hi Guys,

I am will be tiling my first floor bathroom, walls and floors. The walls are partially bricks and partially Hardi Backer. The floors are wooden.

The tiles are quite heavy, 330x330 ceramic tiles.

Can you please advise what type of adhesive and grout should I use? Do I need a fast setting adhesive for the walls, because the tiles are heavy? Do I need flexible adhesive fore the floor, because the floor is wooden? Do I need flexible grout for the floor? Any other recommendation?

And do I need to put some plywood onto the floor before tiling?

Thanks for your help!

 

[AdamCH]

Put hardie backer on the floors. Don't try to tile straight onto the wooden floor. If your floors are very bad then you may need to do more to get it flat & deflection free before you start. If they're very bad rip them up, put noggins in and replace the floor with 18 mm (or 22mm) exterior grade ply and then put 6mm hardie on top.

Use a flexible rapid set for the floor - Weber SPF Rapid is very good. Fast set will let you walk on it sooner.

Use a slow set non flex on the walls - Weber Set Plus is very good. Fast set on the walls isn't needed & slow set gives you more time to adjust.

Use a flexible grout - Weber Pro is good.

Use white if the tiles are light coloured and grey if they're dark.

Are you planning on tiling straight onto the bricks? You'd probably be better plasterboarding them.

 

[firapara]

Put hardie backer on the floors. Don't try to tile straight onto the wooden floor. If your floors are very bad then you may need to do more to get it flat & deflection free before you start. If they're very bad rip them up, put noggins in and replace the floor with 18 mm (or 22mm) exterior grade ply and then put 6mm hardie on top.

Use a flexible rapid set for the floor - Weber SPF Rapid is very good. Fast set will let you walk on it sooner.

Use a slow set non flex on the walls - Weber Set Plus is very good. Fast set on the walls isn't needed & slow set gives you more time to adjust.

Use a flexible grout - Weber Pro is good.

Use white if the tiles are light coloured and grey if they're dark.

Are you planning on tiling straight onto the bricks? You'd probably be better plasterboarding them.

Thanks for your help Adam!

I will be covering the walls with HardiBacker 500, for the floors, as you recommended, will put some Hardi 250.

 

[firapara]

One more thing,

Hardi Backer will be on the walls in the shower area, but I want to tile one more wall which will not be water facing. Can I tile that wall onto the bricks directly?

 

[AdamCH]

I doubt if your tiles are that heavy - the heavy ones tend to be stone or thick porcelain. Rather than hardie on the walls you'd probably be better with moisture resistant plasterboard (don't skim it and it will take 32kg per m2). If you use Hardie it will still need tanking in the shower so no real advantage.

If the tiles are too heavy for plasterboard you'd be better of with 12.5mm Marmox - http://www.insulationexpress.co.uk/...x-Multi-Board---The-Original-Marmox-Board.htm

Not sure about tiles straight on to brick. Are they perfectly flat? If not then you'll use masses of tile adhesive - cheaper, faster and better to dot and dab plasterboard / Marmox.

 

[SparrowHawk99]

Adam I have similar questions, all my walls and floor are 12mm ply.

I was going to buy mapei wall and floor flexible grout and do the whole lot with this. I don't really want to mix the stuff, can you recommend a ready mixed grout, or are they not very good ?

 

[SparrowHawk99]

Also can you clarify for me :

Flexible grout on floors ONLY ?

Non-flexible grout on walls ?

 

[AdamCH]

Use same flexible grout everywhere. You need it on the floor & it won't do any harm on the walls.

 

[AdamCH]

Adam I have similar questions, all my walls and floor are 12mm ply.

I was going to buy mapei wall and floor flexible grout and do the whole lot with this. I don't really want to mix the stuff, can you recommend a ready mixed grout, or are they not very good ?

Mixing cement based grout isn't difficult. Just mix it to the proportions on the bag. No doubt there are some good ready mixed grouts but cement based adhesives & grouts are nearly always better than ready mixed.

Have you done all the tiling or could you still switch from ply to moisture resistant plasterboard or cement boards (Hardie) or waterproof tile backers (Marmox).

Ps - if you've tiled onto ply then you should probably use flexible everything everywhere.

 

[firapara]

Not sure about tiles straight on to brick. Are they perfectly flat? If not then you'll use masses of tile adhesive - cheaper, faster and better to dot and dab plasterboard / Marmox.

Thanks Adam, that wall is still plastered, the plaster looks good, but I am not sure if it will hold my tiles. The tiles I am using are ~25Kg per M2. Is there any way to test if the plaster will hold the tiles?

Thanks,

 

[SparrowHawk99]

Adam I have similar questions, all my walls and floor are 12mm ply.

I was going to buy mapei wall and floor flexible grout and do the whole lot with this. I don't really want to mix the stuff, can you recommend a ready mixed grout, or are they not very good ?

Mixing cement based grout isn't difficult. Just mix it to the proportions on the bag. No doubt there are some good ready mixed grouts but cement based adhesives & grouts are nearly always better than ready mixed.

Have you done all the tiling or could you still switch from ply to moisture resistant plasterboard or cement boards (Hardie) or waterproof tile backers (Marmox).

Ps - if you've tiled onto ply then you should probably use flexible everything everywhere.

Thanks for the heads up. It was to late for me to rip out and replace the ply so next time I'm going to use hardibacker or marmox as you suggested - just to clarify is hardibacker/marmox to be used for the whole of a bathroom or just the shower/bath areas ?

My worry about buying and mixing the mapei is I'm not even close to needing 2.5kg of grout, if I tinker with the ratios is it ok to mix a small amount and save the rest for later ? It's expensive stuff as about £20 a bag

 

[AdamCH]

It's the powder/water ratio that's important. Don't mix a whole bag in one go.

Marmox is waterproof so good in showers - doesn't need tanking

MR Plasterboard is good elsewhere but has a 32kg m2 limit (probably take a bit more in reality).

HBB isn't waterproof but will carry heavier tiles.

If you use MR Plasterboard or HBB in the shower it will need tanking.

Marmox is also insulating so 10mm upwards good on the floor under the UF heating.

 

[SparrowHawk99]

It's the powder/water ratio that's important. Don't mix a whole bag in one go.

Marmox is waterproof so good in showers - doesn't need tanking

MR Plasterboard is good elsewhere but has a 32kg m2 limit (probably take a bit more in reality).

HBB isn't waterproof but will carry heavier tiles.

If you use MR Plasterboard or HBB in the shower it will need tanking.

Marmox is also insulating so 10mm upwards good on the floor under the UF heating.

Adam, lastly, how long do I need to wait after applying the grout before using the shower? And, do I need to use waterproof paint for the shower room ceilings? I plan on using dulux matt white

 

[AdamCH]

How quick it sets will probably depends on how warm it is, how porous the tiles are, how deep the joints are and which grout you use etc. The Weber Pro that I'm using has a set time of 5 hours but it will be quite a long time after that before it's fully cured. I'd have thought that you could use it a day or so after but I'd leave it as long as you can. You'll need to silicone after grouting & that will probably need leaving a day to cure.

Dulux do a bathroom/kitchen range that's moisture resistant. Not sure if they do matt - may have to be soft sheen. If you use std matt it will get mouldy quicker and be much harder to clean.

 

[firapara]

Hi Adam,

The tiles I am using are ~25Kg per M2. Is there any way to test if the plaster will hold the tiles?