Tiling lessons learnt for diy rookies like me.

[festive]

I embarked on tiling our ensuite over Xmas period. Ive done some tiling before last 2 bathrooms have been ceramic, those tiles are a right **** to cut!

This time i was working with porcelenosa porcelein tiles 900x30, pretty easy i thought, get em up in no time.

So plasterboarded the ensuite and set out my markings and level battens etc.
Started putting them up on my old tile trowel which i think is grooved about 5mm deep using Bnq Fix n grout. I ran out fairly quickly as i must of been wearing half of it after the first few hours, much to my dads amusement.

He went off to get some more, came back with some Unibond Tile adhesive.. saying "dont use that BnQ sh't use this stuff, i prefer it" Now it seemed a bit stiffer to me but hey it went up ok, although it wasn't white like the other stuff. I put the tiles straight on as the muck went up.

Set the rest of the tiles in and went to bed. Got up the next morning to check my work, pulled out one of my 1.7mm tile spacers halfway up the wall and FCK the tiles flexed out at the join like they handn't bonded, i quickly pushed it back in, and backed against the wall wondering if the fking lot would fall off!
Lifted off a few, none with the unibond adhesive had stuck. The stuff had stuck to the walls ok, but not the tiles. Oh cock!

Speaking to the old man he asked "did you unibond the walls?" Err no. So he reckoned i do that and maybe add a bit of water to the mix.

Well in the end i added more water to the mix and wiped the back of the tiles with a wet rag before putting them up, which worked. "yeeehaaaa!"

WHy didn't i get a tiler in you may ask. Well the last one recommended from out local decent tiler shop did our kitchen and he royally ****ed it up. Still curse the fcker every time the sun comes up in the morning, as they cast shadows theyre so uneven, each one leans a different way.
Figured i may take twice as long but at least my tiles are flush to maybe a few tenths of a mm (even if they do fall down in a few weeks time)

Lesson learnt:

Read the informative Sticky at the top of this forum topic!!!!

Remember how pourous porcelein and dry lined walls are!
Check if you need to Unibond walls.
Dont just use any old mix make sure you have the right adhesive for your tiles.
Have a decent fine tipped permanent marker to hand, those peel of crayons are ****.
Dont cut the end tiles too fine to the wall or floor you may need that extra few mm gap to align your tiles properly.

 

[Richard C]

There is indeed a tiling sticky;
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=77709

Don’t know if your looking for advice or just making observations but you made (& are still making) lots of glaring mistakes;

Regard any fix & grout product as not fit for purpose; you will never find a pro tiller using the stuff or the one you replaced it with for that matter. Use only quality trade products of the correct type for your tiles.

Use powder cement addy for tiles that size/weight never tub mix; probably the main reason your tiles didn’t stick.

If you use plasterboard in a wet area, tank it or it probably won’t last, especially if you use cheap DIY tiling products; use waterproof tile backer boards if you want the job to last.

Plasterboard has a maximum tile weight; 32 kg/sqm unplastered 20 kg/sqm plastered but that includes the weight of adhesive/grout; hope your large format tiles don’t exceed that!

Flexible addy/grout only on any type of plaster/tile backer boards.

Only use primer if the tile addy manufacturer recommends it & NEVER use standard PVA (assume that’s wht you mean by Unibond) on a tile base & if you use it in a wet area, you tiles may well fall off. Standard PVA is water soluble & will re-emulsify if it gets wet.

I could go on but will stop here

While you wait for your tiles to fall off, I would advise you read the Tiling forum sticky & archive posts; there are myself & a few other tillers on here that give regular advice. Read & learn then hopefully you will be able to do it properly next time around but come back if you need specific advice

 

[Richard C]

I notice you found the Sticky since you first posted

 

[festive]

Hey Richard,

many thanks for taking the time to reply, yes i guess i was looking for some observations and at the same time warning to other people wading into a job like this, as you have well articulated, you can't just bish bash bosh and expect it to last.

Oh p1ss flaps i must admit i didn't even think about the weight per sq/m nor did i think about using tileboard in the shower area. I figured if the fcker is leaking moisture through the grout it needs to be pulled off anyway.

Hmmm. Saying that my builder friend who fits luxury bathrooms and is quite meticulous didn't make those observations of yours, and he helped me plasterboard it, saying that maybe he just kept shtum.

Oh by the way for whatever reason, oh yes the bucket said "FOR WALLS ONLY" i didn't use that sh't on the floor, i used Unibond flexible floor adhesive for porcelein. Which i indeed mixed up. And yes i laid 12WPB over my chipboard floor. So at least my floor wont fall down

Im gonna post some pics later anyway whilst it's all still up there.

 

[Richard C]

Oh p**s flaps i must admit i didn't even think about the weight per sq/m nor did i think about using tileboard in the shower area. I figured if the fcker is leaking moisture through the grout it needs to be pulled off anyway.

Not widely understood is that conventional waterproof adhesive & grout is only waterproof in the sense it won’t disintegrate if it gets wet, it will still absorb water; only expensive elastomer/epoxy products are truly waterproof. That’s why it’s important that your tile base is waterproof either backer board or tank it if PB which should also be Moisture Resistant in bathrooms not standard wallboard.

Hmmm. Saying that my builder friend who fits luxury bathrooms and is quite meticulous didn't make those observations of yours, and he helped me plasterboard it, saying that maybe he just kept shtum.

Can’t & would not wish to comment on your mates practice or standards, that’s his concern. All my work is refurbishments, also at the high end & you would not believe that state of some of the plasterboard I rip out sometimes less than 5 year old. I also have a close friend who’s a successful builder/property developer who builds a fair few new properties every year & he takes an equally “head in the sand” approach, mainly on account of the cost; just says that’s OK you can go & refurb them in 5 years time.

Oh by the way for whatever reason, oh yes the bucket said "FOR WALLS ONLY" i didn't use that sh't on the floor, i used Unibond flexible floor adhesive for porcelein. Which i indeed mixed up. And yes i laid 12WPB over my chipboard floor. So at least my floor wont fall down

Always read the instructions on the tin . Your product choice is still somewhat suspect &, as I said, you wont find many if any pro tillers using it but hopefully will be OK; the powder addy is somewhat better than the tub mix. I use BAL exclusively but other good make are Mapei (but not the stuff they sell in B&Q), Webber, Granfix, Ardex etc.

 

[festive]

So basically i now have all the tiles up, i did 3:1 pva the shower area as i only used standard plasterboard.

Now, just to make sure, should i use epoxy resin in the shower area, the tiles are big (900x300) standing on a resin based tray, but i see most grouts are only water resistant.

Thoughts please anyone?

 

[Richard C]

i did 3:1 pva the shower area as i only used standard plasterboard.

You just made a big mistake; why on earth did you use PVA? did you not read my previous post;

Only use primer if the tile addy manufacturer recommends it & NEVER use standard PVA (assume that’s wht you mean by Unibond) on a tile base & if you use it in a wet area, you tiles may well fall off. Standard PVA is water soluble & will re-emulsify if it gets wet.

Also read this;
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/f...8&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Now, just to make sure, should i use epoxy resin in the shower area, the tiles are big (900x300) standing on a resin based tray, but i see most grouts are only water resistant.

Again did you not read my previous post;

If you use plasterboard in a wet area, tank it or it probably won’t last, especially if you use cheap DIY tiling products; use waterproof tile backer boards if you want the job to last. Plasterboard has a maximum tile weight; 32 kg/sqm unplastered 20 kg/sqm plastered but that includes the weight of adhesive/grout; hope your large format tiles don’t exceed that! Use powder cement addy for tiles that size/weight never tub mix.

Epoxy is generally not necessary in a domestic shower unless you have very good reason for using; are you hoping it will prevent your tiles falling on the floor! You must also use the correct adhesive depending on the tiles your laying. If you use cement addy over plaster or plasterboard, you must use an acrylic primer (not PVA) to prevent the possibility of a reaction between the cement in the addy & gypsum. If your tiling onto plasterboard (even MR) in a wet area, tank it if you want it to last any length of time but better still use a waterproof tile backer board which is also far more suitable for those huge tiles you have. PVA or SBR are not tanking agents.

You are still making fundamental mistakes; you need to do rather more research before you go any further & listen/act on the advice already given. This will most likely be my last post as I see little point in giving further advice if you’re just going to ignore it; I’ll leave it to someone else who maybe will give the advice you seem to want to hear.

 

[festive]

Sorry Richard.

After our last chat i called our local tile shop and he talked me out of a tanking kit and just said mix up 4:1 Pva although he did also say tiling onto standard plasterboard in shower area shouldn't of happened.

So still not sure i picked up the bucket of BnQ fix n grout i had which i originally used and worked fine (yes i can see you shaking your head). ON tha back it says:

Preparation

"Step 1 Prime porous surfaces with 1 part PVA diluted with 5 parts water and allow to dry. Seal timber with solvent base primer"

So after that i primed the wall where i had removed the 5 lose tiles and applied the waterproof fix n grout. So i suppose if my tiles fall down i can put a claim in with BnQ

My reasoning for epoxy resin was because i had read about grout being water RESISTANT and not completely waterproof, and of course what youve already highlighted i thought id rather try and ensure no water is getting past the tiles.

Sorry if you think im completely ignoring your advice, im not as most of it was up anyway, im just trying to finish it off best as possible. I tried removing the other tiles, they're stuck like sh't, it means i need to smash the bathroom up and start again, i couldn't do that!

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[Richard C]

After our last chat i called our local tile shop and he talked me out of a tanking kit and just said mix up 4:1 Pva.

The guy in your local tile shop is a Muppet.

although he did also say tiling onto standard plasterboard in shower area shouldn't of happened.

At least he got that right which makes me wonder why on earth he said don’t tank & even worse to use standard PVA; did he give any pearls of wisdom why he recommended PVA & what, in his opinion, it would achieve

So still not sure i picked up the bucket of BnQ fix n grout i had which i originally used and worked fine (yes i can see you shaking your head). ON tha back it says:

Preparation
"Step 1 Prime porous surfaces with 1 part PVA diluted with 5 parts water and allow to dry. Seal timber with solvent base primer"

So after that i primed the wall where i had removed the 5 lose tiles and applied the waterproof fix n grout. So i suppose if my tiles fall down i can put a claim in with BnQ

I did say use a decent addy/grout suitable for the tiles which you haven’t. This has come up before with a particular manufacturer (BNQ don’t actually make it but it may tell you who does on the packaging) who is probably the only one I know that recomends using PVA as a primer; by strange coincidence, they also makes the stuff. You could try suing if your tiles fall on the floor but good luck with that one, I doubt it’s suitable for the weight of tiles your using!

My reasoning for epoxy resin was because i had read about grout being water RESISTANT and not completely waterproof, and of course what youve already highlighted i thought id rather try and ensure no water is getting past the tiles.

Well that’s reasoned thinking at least & what I suspected; may be a very expensive option for you though.