Toilet won't flush properly, is this the cause...?

[st07]

My mum lives in the top floor of a three story flat. Ever since she's been there the toilet has never worked properly, or at least how I'd consider a toilet to. Any solid waste requires at least two flushes, sometimes more. When you flush the water runs away fine so it's not a blockage, it just takes an age to remove waste.

Looking at the U bend and waste tubing it seems to exit at a completely horizontal angle. I'm guessing the reason for the troublesome flushes is because gravity can't help the waste along the tube as it would with any other toilet waste tube where it exits vertically? Aside from physically raising the toilet off the ground so to provide some angle to the waste tube, what else could we do to remedy this problem?

Thanks

[pictures attached]

 

[45yearsagasman]

That's an extremely tight first bend and when meeting horizontal pipe it makes for a poor flow. I assume the cistern is filled correctly to the max water level.
There's no telling how much horizontal pipe there is from the pics?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

The soil pipe has at least the width of the bath too before getting to the stack, little or no fall could cause the problems mentioned.

1:40 fall is the rule of thumb for a 110mm pipe, raising the toilet may help achieve a better fall, the other alternative is to lower the junction in the soil pipe slightly, but with limited access and possible use of solvent welded fittings on the soil pipe that would be near impossible......

I would suspect the original pan has been replaced, the new pan having a lower outlet than its predecessor, and the soil pipe 'made' to fit, albeit then having inadequate fall.

 

[Charnwood]

Is it possible to increase the volume of the flush?
One bigger flush might be better than 3 flushes at the current volume.

Is it currently a single or dual flush flushing mechanism (syphon, flush valve, flapper valve)?

 

[peterperfection]

Is it possible to increase the volume of the flush?
One bigger flush might be better than 3 flushes at the current volume.

Is it currently a single or dual flush flushing mechanism (syphon, flush valve, flapper valve)?

Lift the toilet pan up 1''- and it will help.
Also- more fibre in your mums diet will help !!
Mums are notorious for 'heavy logs' !

 

[Jake1886]

Have you checked the water level in your cistern?

 

[JohnD]

and if you take the cistern lid off, and flush, does the water gush down right to the bottom of the cistern? And there isn't a brick or plastic bag in it? And you only have to pull the handle once for the cistern to fully empty itself? Worn-out syphon valves are very common.

A "flapper valve" to replace the syphon gives a very powerful and fast flush which may help.

Heavy limescale in the pan channels is possible, but less common. Is there a lot of scale in the cistern? Take some photos

 

[st07]

That's an extremely tight first bend and when meeting horizontal pipe it makes for a poor flow. I assume the cistern is filled correctly to the max water level.
There's no telling how much horizontal pipe there is from the pics?

Not sure, I'll check a bit later, though I do have to hold the handle for a few seconds so I assume it's pretty full.

The soil pipe has at least the width of the bath too before getting to the stack, little or no fall could cause the problems mentioned......
...
...

All interesting info, thanks Though the 1:40 ratio confuses me?

Is it possible to increase the volume of the flush?
One bigger flush might be better than 3 flushes at the current volume.

Is it currently a single or dual flush flushing mechanism (syphon, flush valve, flapper valve)?

Yeah, as above I'll check the volume of water it holds atm and I'll take some pics. It's a solitary handle on the side so I assume single flush?

Lift the toilet pan up 1''- and it will help.
Also- more fibre in your mums diet will help !!
Mums are notorious for 'heavy logs' !

LOL, I think I just done a sick in my mouth 1" is all it might need, do you think? How would I go about raising the base though?

Have you checked the water level in your cistern?

Will check soon.

and if you take the cistern lid off, and flush, does the water gush down right to the bottom of the cistern? And there isn't a brick or plastic bag in it? And you only have to pull the handle once for the cistern to fully empty itself? Worn-out syphon valves are very common.

Is there a lot of scale in the cistern? Take some photos

Again, thanks for this, all very interesting stuff Shall investigate and take pics later. TBH you have to hold the handle for a few seconds for it to fully flush, otherwise you don't get much of a flush.

 

[Charnwood]

you have to hold the handle for a few seconds for it to fully flush, otherwise you don't get much of a flush.

Dual flush.

 

[flameport]

Another item to avoid are those plastic cleaner/perfumed things which hang in the toilet bowl. They obstruct the water flow and are also the perfect size to fall down the pan and block the pipe.

 

[st07]

I honestly just think it's a crap flush but I'll take some pics shortly and you'll probably be able to deduce what is it from those?

 

[peterperfection]

Thanks for this, all very interesting stuff

Shall investigate and take pics later. TBH you have to hold the handle for a few seconds for it to fully flush, otherwise you don't get much of a flush.

 

[st07]

Went round tonight, the flush itself isn't as bad as I made out, one push of the handle and it flushes continuously until it hits the same water level in the cistern (however it doesn't dump the whole volume of water, check the pics...). It's just most of the time waste takes two or three flushes, so there's definitely a problem.

(oh another thing, the waste pipe you see goes to her loft to what looks like a 'vent'... what's that all about?)

Some better quality pictures for you:

--

Full

Finished flushing

Water flushes away until just below this hole, I presume some kind of pressure equalizer

 

[bernardgreen]

I think that little blue tab could be the problem. It might be a water saving device.

If it is uncovering the hole then when the water level is below the hole air can enter the syphon and this stops the syphon pulling water out of the cistern. it should be possible to move it to cover the hole.

 

[warmadmax]

...
(oh another thing, the waste pipe you see goes to her loft to what looks like a 'vent'... what's that all about?)

You need the vent to allow the Air displaced by the water to move in the soil stack, otherwise you'd get "glug glug glug" and a very poor flowing drain.

and i agree with bernard, the blue tab at the bottom front of the syphon is a water conservation feature and appears to be set at the "max" saving, blocking the hole missing it's blue tab, directly above, should give a full flush to the bottom of the cistern.