Tory Leadership Race

[carmanmemoranda]

Imagine you are an employer of people. You post an advert for a job. Nobody applies. You are sure its well advertised, yet still nobody applies.

What will you do to fill your vacancy? I promise you don't need a 1st class honours degree to work it out.

Great.

But it's not working like that. And you know that

 

[motorbiking]

why do you think that is?

Is it because the vacancies are filled with people who will work on minimum wage.

What do you think would happen if we managed to get just 20% of those on minimum wage, to develop the skills to earn avg. wage?

We'd have £1.344Bn more in taxes to spend. You might also find a few minimum wage Jobs going unfilled forcing people to offer a better deal.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

why do you think that is?

Is it because the vacancies are filled with people who will work on minimum wage.

What do you think would happen if we managed to get just 20% of those on minimum wage, to develop the skills to earn avg. wage?

We'd have £1.344Bn more in taxes to spend. You might also find a few minimum wage Jobs going unfilled forcing people to offer a better deal.

So you're happy with paying minimum wage, or as little as you can get away with, as long as there are lots of people prepared to work for it. But you hate the idea of unions increasing the wages of their members.

To me, if ANYBODY, (developed skills or not) puts in a full working week then they should take home a fair pay packet that allows them to live without subsidies (tax credits etc) that other taxpayers have to chip in for.

I dont agree with your attitude to people.

Fair days work should equal a fair days pay. No ifs, no buts. If people want to develop more skills and aim for more reward, with all the stresses that brings with it, then that's ok. But you shouldnt have to be super qualified to earn a decent living wage.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

why do you think that is?

Is it because the vacancies are filled with people who will work on minimum wage.

What do you think would happen if we managed to get just 20% of those on minimum wage, to develop the skills to earn avg. wage?

We'd have £1.344Bn more in taxes to spend. You might also find a few minimum wage Jobs going unfilled forcing people to offer a better deal.

Those jobs will still be there. The jobs may change, but there will always be low end jobs that NEED doing. Just that some don't want to pay for them being done. You are 1 of those !

 

[motorbiking]

So you're happy with paying minimum wage, or as little as you can get away with, as long as there are lots of people prepared to work for it. But you hate the idea of unions increasing the wages of their members.

To me, if ANYBODY, (developed skills or not) puts in a full working week then they should take home a fair pay packet that allows them to live without subsidies (tax credits etc) that other taxpayers have to chip in for.

I dont agree with your attitude to people.

Fair days work should equal a fair days pay. No ifs, no buts. If people want to develop more skills and aim for more reward, with all the stresses that brings with it, then that's ok. But you shouldnt have to be super qualified to earn a decent living wage.

Have you ever had employees or managed people?

Even if you haven't I am sure you recognise there are hard workers and slackers. Some put everything in to the job and some constantly look to do nothing. Why should they be paid the same?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Have you ever had employees or managed people?

Even if you haven't I am sure you recognise there are hard workers and slackers. Some put everything in to the job and some constantly look to do nothing. Why should they be paid the same?

Which avoids the point, well done.

Why should anyone doing a fair days work noty be paid a fair days pay ? Just because there are lots of other people that can do that job does not mean it should not be paid fairly, and adequately.

Finding an employee who is better than expected, then pay them more. But when they are on minimum wage it wouldn't bother you, just keep paying minimum wage and take advantage.

Im sure tescoburys and most other large employers differentiate between great workers and slackers. Oh no, they pay the same to all.

 

[fillyboy]

All I've ever asked for is a fair weeks wage for a fair days work.

 

[Notch7]

Some put everything in to the job and some constantly look to do nothing. Why should they be paid the same

Boris Johnson couldn’t be arzed to turn up to the first 5 Cobra meetings.

 

[blup]

What do you think would happen to a job's pay if nobody applied, but it was essential?

That's an economically purist view of market forces which bears no relation to what often happens in practice

1, they'd import workers - as is often the case in the care sector

Another Brexhit disbenefit. 83% drop in visa applications after ban on foreign workers bringing dependents with them took effect earlier this year.

2, they'd pay more or structure the job better to attract people.

It doesn't work like that when care homes aren't even any longer cross subsidised by private payers, so to maintain profit the service levels drop and more is squeezed out of existing staff, like not paying them for travel time between domiciliary visits.

 

[Brigadier]

All I've ever asked for is a fair weeks wage for a fair days work.

A bloke who works for me says the same.

Ironically, he struggles to even manage "a fair day's work" as his part of the bargain.......

 

[motorbiking]

Which avoids the point, well done.

Why should anyone doing a fair days work noty be paid a fair days pay ? Just because there are lots of other people that can do that job does not mean it should not be paid fairly, and adequately.

Finding an employee who is better than expected, then pay them more. But when they are on minimum wage it wouldn't bother you, just keep paying minimum wage and take advantage.

Im sure tescoburys and most other large employers differentiate between great workers and slackers. Oh no, they pay the same to all.

Not avoiding the point. Just trying to understand why you don’t get it.

 

[blup]

Organisations are political, and its often who fits best who keeps their job. Plenty of hard working people are sacked, and many slackers keep their jobs because their face fits with the boss.

 

[Notch7]

What do you think would happen if we managed to get just 20% of those on minimum wage, to develop the skills to earn avg. wage?

The need for low paid jobs would still remain.

And the people in those jobs would still be unable go afford enough for food and heating.


Whilst the CEOs of those companies might be on £1.5m + bonuses.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

The need for low paid jobs would still remain.

And the people in those jobs would still be unable go afford enough for food and heating.


Whilst the CEOs of those companies might be on £1.5m + bonuses.

He is 1 of those that is happy, and wants, to exploit the liw paid. But argues strongly against unions standing up for them.

He is struggling, or completely ignoring, the point of fair pay for fair work.

Swerving around

 

[JohnD]

The taxpayer subsidises low-paying employers by providing benefits to the low paid.