Hi sorry this is a bit long,I'm totally confused how to address my problem..I have a Baxi boiler which heats the radiators & hot water ( I have the big hot water tank in a cupboard upstairs and big water tank & header in loft)..my Hallway is always cold and the thermostat is in this hallway( the hallway Never gets even slightly warm)..when I set the thermostat my boiler then continously runs and never clicks off ( which obviously is costing a fortune in heating cost's) is it possible to have the thermostat moved or replaced to a room that's warmer? and if possible who would I get in touch with an Electrician or a Heating Engineer ..TIA
Totally confused heating control
- Thread starter worcesterman47
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Ideally the room thermostat should be in an area that is one of the last to warm up so that the rest of the house is warm before the thermostat turns all the radiators off, the problem here seems to be that the hallway radiator is too small or isn't working properly.
If the radiators in the other rooms have TRV's fitted then the rooms shouldn't be being overheated and whilst the thermostat is keeping the boiler running it will be self regulating and burning less energy as the demand will have fallen. Don't expect to save anything noticeable unless you are finding the other rooms are too hot for you.
Moving the thermostat to another room is possible, however its location would need to be carefully selected so that you don't create other problems. Better to get the heating in the hall fixed so that the thermostat works properly IMHO.
If the radiators in the other rooms have TRV's fitted then the rooms shouldn't be being overheated and whilst the thermostat is keeping the boiler running it will be self regulating and burning less energy as the demand will have fallen. Don't expect to save anything noticeable unless you are finding the other rooms are too hot for you.
Moving the thermostat to another room is possible, however its location would need to be carefully selected so that you don't create other problems. Better to get the heating in the hall fixed so that the thermostat works properly IMHO.
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If it's hard wired then to relocate will likely need to be a wireless type. Is there a radiator in the hallway? Regards who does the job can be either, just needs to be someone with a clue about wiring.
Hi,the radiator in the hallway is a Double one..the biggest we could get..but the shape of the hallways walls are not big enough to put bigger radiators ..the hallway has open plan stairway in it. And all the door edges (5doors) are insulated.
What doesn't get warm, the hall generally, or the hall radiator - if there is one fitted?
The radiator does get Hot...the Hallway is Always Cold....I've no problem with the hallway being cold BUT with the thermostat in there which never reaches any kind of heat, then the boiler just keeps heating and never switches itself off
You could try adjusting the thermostat, down to a lower level where it does switch the heating off... Allow the system, to get the rest of the house up to the temperature you want, then slowly turn the stat down, until it clicks off.
Halls, are normally the coldest places anyway, due to the outside door.
But if I did turn the thermostat down to say 18 when the rest of the house has heated up..then when the rest of the house cools down I would have to then turn thermostat back up to heat the house up again wouldn't I?
No, if the house cooled, the hall will get even cooler too, so the system should switch back on. In the space where the thermostat is located, the radiator should not be fitted with a TRV - if one is fitted, its head should be removed, or it should be permanently set to max.
Thank you...I will give that a go and see how it works out...there is no TRV on hallway radiator.
Our thermostat, is a wireless one, which replaced a wired one, originally in the living room. Problem it caused, was if the gas fire in the living room was lit, the stat in the same room, would shut the CH down for the rest of the house, so I ended up moving it to the hall.
Since then, I upgraded to a fancy system, with a wireless stat, which usually fits on a bracket in the hall, but we have the option to take it in the living room, and if the fire is lit, we save a bit of gas, when it shuts the CH off.
Ahh...I was told by moving the thermostat or getting a wireless one could cause some problems ....never thought about the gas fire causing one...Great info..I'll take that into consideration now.
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@stem has given you the answer, the wall thermostat stops the heating running when we have warm weather, it is doing that job it seems?
My house, a little different as not a modulating boiler, but in most homes, the boiler produces hot water, which is pumped around the house, each radiator has two controls, a lock shield valve which controls the speed the radiator heats, so that the other valve the TRV has enough time to turn down the radiator, so room does not overheat. It also results in every radiator getting its fair share of hot water.
If the lock shield is set correctly, the return water is much cooler, this is required, so the boiler can extract the latent heat from the flue gases, but as the TRV's close the by-pass valve opens sending hot water back to the boiler, which the boiler takes as a signal that less heat is required, so it modulates (turns down) so the return water is still cool enough to extract the latent heat.
If it can't turn down any more, it will start a mark/space ratio, which means it turns off/on slowly increasing the off time, but unless there is some linked thermostat, the boiler can't turn fully off, as it would not know when to turn on again.
So we need either linked TRV heads, or a wall thermostat, the selection as to which, is dependent on where the radiators are, if mounted on an internal wall, then no need for a wall thermostat, the TRV can be linked, but if radiator on an outside wall, then the wall can cool the TRV to a lower temperature to the room, and start the heating prematurely, once running it does not matter, as we have a circulation of air, but it can cause false starts when the radiator is on an outside wall. Since the wall thermostat should be on the wall facing the radiator, if the radiator is on an inside wall, then likely any wall thermostat would be on an outside wall, so, as to if a wall thermostat is used, depends on if radiator on an inside or outside wall.
There are other factors, my living room has two radiators, some electronic TRV heads can be linked as pairs, but often easier to use a wall thermostat. You can get wall sensors to work electronic TRV heads, and the TRV head can be mechanical, so no schedule can be set, or electronic allowing you to decide when each room is heated as well as to what temperature, the electronic can be standing alone, or connect to a hub, so can start the boiler running.
In the main central heating is a compromise, I call it near enough engineering, we can use cheap non-linked TRV heads, or expensive linked types, and they can have all sorts built in, so can detect a sudden drop in temperature when an outside door is opened, and delay the heating of that radiator, handy when unloading shopping from the car, they can work out how long it takes to heat a room, and turn the heating on before the set time, so room warm at time set. But I got my eQ-3 TRV heads for £15 each, paid more like £45 for the linked TRV head, so only have one linked head.
So I have two wall thermostats in the main house, one in the living room, but also an open fire in the living room, and patio doors onto the veranda, so also one in the hall, so if fire lit, other rooms don't get cold, but hall thermostat set lower than living room one, and a linked TRV head in wife's bedroom so if her bedroom gets too cold overnight, when the set schedule has turned the other two down, it will fire the boiler to heat her room.
My bedroom is always warmer than hers, so my TRV is not linked, as if my room needs more heat, her TRV will have already fired the boiler up.
The amount of control does depend on size and style of house, with 5 bedrooms one thermostat will not really be enough, plus I have doors on the rooms, last house open plan, one wall thermostat was ample. There is no one system suits all, last house up-stairs always warmer than downstairs, so simple mechanical TRV heads to stop up-stairs over heating was enough.
Mother house had some single brick walls, no cavity, so bedrooms needed electronic TRV heads. The 10 electronic TRV heads in this house have reduced my heating bill, as unused rooms not heated, and rooms only heated as and when used. I have 4 makes of electronic TRV heads, Energenie were the first I got, thought they would work with Nest wall thermostat, but they don't, so next lot were eQ-3 non-linked blue tooth, but they went up in price, so next was a Kasa, then wanted a linked one for wife's bedroom so last one was Drayton Wiser, there is the terrier i30 very like the eQ-3 stand alone and cheap, I do not really like the Energenie as need to use phone or PC to set, others can be locally manually set, and the Energenie, Kasa, and Wiser all need hubs, where the eQ-3 does not.
But the mechanical TRV heads have rather a large latitude, so set to say 2.5, room is somewhere between 17 and 21 degrees C, where the electronic type, is within 0.5 degrees of setting. I have never really worked out why people use the old mechanical type, OK the electronic do need a pair of AA cells once a year, and slightly more expensive, but looking at cost of oil or gas, not having the TRV setting timed seems to be throwing money down the drain.
My house, a little different as not a modulating boiler, but in most homes, the boiler produces hot water, which is pumped around the house, each radiator has two controls, a lock shield valve which controls the speed the radiator heats, so that the other valve the TRV has enough time to turn down the radiator, so room does not overheat. It also results in every radiator getting its fair share of hot water.
If the lock shield is set correctly, the return water is much cooler, this is required, so the boiler can extract the latent heat from the flue gases, but as the TRV's close the by-pass valve opens sending hot water back to the boiler, which the boiler takes as a signal that less heat is required, so it modulates (turns down) so the return water is still cool enough to extract the latent heat.
If it can't turn down any more, it will start a mark/space ratio, which means it turns off/on slowly increasing the off time, but unless there is some linked thermostat, the boiler can't turn fully off, as it would not know when to turn on again.
So we need either linked TRV heads, or a wall thermostat, the selection as to which, is dependent on where the radiators are, if mounted on an internal wall, then no need for a wall thermostat, the TRV can be linked, but if radiator on an outside wall, then the wall can cool the TRV to a lower temperature to the room, and start the heating prematurely, once running it does not matter, as we have a circulation of air, but it can cause false starts when the radiator is on an outside wall. Since the wall thermostat should be on the wall facing the radiator, if the radiator is on an inside wall, then likely any wall thermostat would be on an outside wall, so, as to if a wall thermostat is used, depends on if radiator on an inside or outside wall.
There are other factors, my living room has two radiators, some electronic TRV heads can be linked as pairs, but often easier to use a wall thermostat. You can get wall sensors to work electronic TRV heads, and the TRV head can be mechanical, so no schedule can be set, or electronic allowing you to decide when each room is heated as well as to what temperature, the electronic can be standing alone, or connect to a hub, so can start the boiler running.
In the main central heating is a compromise, I call it near enough engineering, we can use cheap non-linked TRV heads, or expensive linked types, and they can have all sorts built in, so can detect a sudden drop in temperature when an outside door is opened, and delay the heating of that radiator, handy when unloading shopping from the car, they can work out how long it takes to heat a room, and turn the heating on before the set time, so room warm at time set. But I got my eQ-3 TRV heads for £15 each, paid more like £45 for the linked TRV head, so only have one linked head.
So I have two wall thermostats in the main house, one in the living room, but also an open fire in the living room, and patio doors onto the veranda, so also one in the hall, so if fire lit, other rooms don't get cold, but hall thermostat set lower than living room one, and a linked TRV head in wife's bedroom so if her bedroom gets too cold overnight, when the set schedule has turned the other two down, it will fire the boiler to heat her room.
My bedroom is always warmer than hers, so my TRV is not linked, as if my room needs more heat, her TRV will have already fired the boiler up.
The amount of control does depend on size and style of house, with 5 bedrooms one thermostat will not really be enough, plus I have doors on the rooms, last house open plan, one wall thermostat was ample. There is no one system suits all, last house up-stairs always warmer than downstairs, so simple mechanical TRV heads to stop up-stairs over heating was enough.
Mother house had some single brick walls, no cavity, so bedrooms needed electronic TRV heads. The 10 electronic TRV heads in this house have reduced my heating bill, as unused rooms not heated, and rooms only heated as and when used. I have 4 makes of electronic TRV heads, Energenie were the first I got, thought they would work with Nest wall thermostat, but they don't, so next lot were eQ-3 non-linked blue tooth, but they went up in price, so next was a Kasa, then wanted a linked one for wife's bedroom so last one was Drayton Wiser, there is the terrier i30 very like the eQ-3 stand alone and cheap, I do not really like the Energenie as need to use phone or PC to set, others can be locally manually set, and the Energenie, Kasa, and Wiser all need hubs, where the eQ-3 does not.
But the mechanical TRV heads have rather a large latitude, so set to say 2.5, room is somewhere between 17 and 21 degrees C, where the electronic type, is within 0.5 degrees of setting. I have never really worked out why people use the old mechanical type, OK the electronic do need a pair of AA cells once a year, and slightly more expensive, but looking at cost of oil or gas, not having the TRV setting timed seems to be throwing money down the drain.
Because they are simple, cheap, and reliable?
The downside is, they are only able to limit room temperature, which they do very well, but they cannot call for heat when there is not enough - that needs the thermostat to call for more heat.
I really do appreciate the advice/ input ...but to me it's getting a bit to technical..let me say though please.....the Radiator in the hallway works fine and gets very hot when required and we cannot get a bigger one or even fit another radiator as there is actually no place to put one as no spare Space/wall is actually wide enough could not even fit a tall radiator as the walls between several doors in hallway are not wide enough.
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