Two way switch issues..

[Tsauru]

Hi All,

hope you can offer some advice!

My fiance and I are decorating our first house and as part of that I'm replacing the somewhat dated white light switches with something more stylish.

The only place in the house that I need a two way switch is the stairs/landing. This is how it looked -

Although it may not be clear, the left hand switch is purely for the hallway light. This is one way and works fine, although there's a loop from the bottom to the bottom of the other switch. The right hand switch for the stairs/landing has a red in 1, black in 2 then another red in the bottom.

They are intermediate switches but aren't making use of all the connections.

So - I've replaced this double gang switch with a 2 way arrangement, and replaced the single gang switch at the top of the stairs (also 2 way) but can't seem to get it to work.

The left switch for the hall works fine. I wired it as closely to the old arrangement as I could - so red into com, black into L1 and red into L2, mirrored at the other switch. I also put the loop from the hall switch into L2 with the other red.

How the wiring looks, for reference -

I can turn the stairs/landing lights on from my hallway, but only if the switch at the top of the stairs is 'on' - that switch itself does nothing. If the switch is off then I can't turn the lights on - so I'm obviously not completing a circuit.

I've tried a few different ways of wiring it but no joy.

I have a feeling I must be missing something obvious!

 

[riveralt]

Unfortunately, as well as photographing the side shot of the rear of the switch you also needed to make a diagram and mark each of the wires in someway so you new which terminal letters they went into.
Did you do that?
If you have separated out the one way wires (I assume downstairs hall light) and it works then focus on the remaining wires.
For intermediate switches arranged as two way read this: //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Intermediate
The link wire takes the live from the downstairs hall light and 'gives' to the upstairs landing light.
Are the upstairs and downstairs lights on different circuits by the way?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Do you have anyway of testing for continuity, also what cables are at the other two way switch and at what terminals are they connected?

Are you saying you are replacing two way switches with intermediate ones?

 

[securespark]

Excluding the wire that has a loop in it and earth wires, how many wires are there?

Are there just 2 switches controlling the landing light?

How many wires of what colour do you have at the other switch(es)?

 

[AndyPRK]

It looks like one of the switches was using the intermediate!

Have you got 2 switches upstairs for the landing light?

I would put the old switch back on !

 

[securespark]

But I'm wondering...it looks like there are more than 4 conductors...

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I think there are a pair for one way hallway light and link plus three for two way landing.

I would be going, Hallway left cables, perm live and link to Com and switch to L1,
leaving link to com on landing gang, with longer red at right. Then it is either or red L1, black L2 /vice versa. But complete guesswork, really need some test equipment now it was been disconnected from original

 

[AndyPRK]

I don't understand why one would be an intermediate. (or that you would have one downstairs).
if there is a live loop.

 

[Tsauru]

Thanks for all your replies. To answer them in turn -

1. There is just one lighting circuit for the whole house
2. Unfortunately I've got no kit to test for continuity, but the set up was working before.
3. The other two way switch upstairs is a single gang, which has 2 reds and 1 black. This was wired like the one downstairs, red in 1, black in 2, then red at the bottom.
4. No, I'm replacing intermediate switches (which were being used for 2 way) with 2 way switches - the old switches have 4 connections but only used 3, or 2 in the case of the hall light.
5. Excluding earth/loop, there are 3 - two reds, one black
6. There are just 2 switches for the light - one upstairs, one downstairs. Putting the old switches back on will allow me to use the lights but won't solve the issue that they need replacing!

 

[riveralt]

Not good to assume, but looking at the second photograph you can see that the location of the wires as photographed matches the terminal pins of the
recently departed switch - one assume a double gang intermediate.
For a double gang two way - as now amended.
So the Top left red will go to the left gang L1 or L2 and the bottom left red with the link wire will go to left gang C.
If the second 2 way is the same orientation then top right black goes to the right gang L1 and the top right red goes to the other right gang L2.
The bottom right red will go to right gang C together with the link wire from left gang C.
Obviously the upstairs switch will need to match terminals and wires.
If the orientation is different then change accordingly.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

It has to be asked. Though I could just be hard of seeing. I can't actually see any earth wires. I also can't see the new switches. Are they metal, and are there earth wires?

 

[riveralt]

It has to be asked. Though I could just be hard of seeing. I can't actually see any earth wires. I also can't see the new switches. Are they metal, and are there earth wires?

There are there in the backbox second picture.

 

[ericmark]

Looking at a standard two way diagram you have

the bottom brown has been replaced in your case with the link so that link will go to common or L1 for switch which is just on/off but must go to L1 or L2 with the two way switch. You will note the two switches are wired like for like so if L1 on one switch then also L1 on the other switch. But the main thing is to ensure com on one switch goes to com on the other and does not really matter (assuming power off) if you use a multi-meter or a door bell you need something to ensure com on one switch goes to com on the other.

 

[Tsauru]

Thanks for all your help everyone, but Riveralt wins the award!

Have just wired it as per your post and now works perfectly. Thanks!

 

[securespark]

The black in the downstairs switch is one of the strapper conductors. Find the other in the same sheath and these go to L1 and L2 of the landing switch.

The feed loop goes to common of both.

The red in the same sheath as the common goes to L1 of the hall switch.

Don't forget to sleeve the black with red and run an earth wire to the switch body if it is metallic.