UK Policy of tackling covid through herd immunity

[ajohn]

Yeah, but £100 a week / £400 a month stat sick pay won't pay the mortgage, council tax, utility bills ... my council tax and gas electric comes to £340 a month!

Now that is a very good point and the only answer for that and companies going bust is to do something about it - the obvious answer is to freeze things so people effected don't have to pay. Now how are they going to handle that. The sub £100 a week is the unemployed. I have no idea on what sick pay levels are and some people work for companies of various sizes and others are self employed. There have been muttering but where is the info - it's not here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ed-or-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection

Interesting comment about facemasks - wear one if you are infected, but a maybe. So obvious I bought several a few weeks ago for anyone that gets infected here. I can sterilise them in our combi oven if needed.

It's an interesting read anyway. 7 days and recovered - maybe it also seems to be the point where it can get serious. This page now only shows tested people ie have contacted 111 and been told to get tested. Seems that rumours about local docs being able to refer people are incorrect.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14

Best sources of news - BBC 6pm and Channel 4 at 7pm - often the best but do bear in mind that some of it will always be about providing good telly what ever is being watched. It's a pity people don't realise this when all of them are spouting about politics. They hope to make some one say the wrong thing and also repeat slurs from one party against another.

 

[JP_]

Yeah, and there is talk of pausing mortgage, rent, utility bills (not heard them mention council tax), but does that mean they will forfeit these, or just expect you to pay several months worth of bills as soon as you go back to work, leading to the same level of debt?

Apart from the terrible fact that it will kill a lot more people, I am currently most concerned about how to avoid losing my home if neither myself or my wife can work for more than a month. We have no savings at all.

 

[SirGalahad]

Campaign picking up pace for health workers to be tested.

The Government is dragging its feet, the NHS is already understaffed so losing anymore staff will compound the shortage of capacity.

You reap what you sow.

The Virus is exposing the horrible policies.

 

[ajohn]

Yeah, and there is talk of pausing mortgage, rent, utility bills (not heard them mention council tax), but does that mean they will forfeit these, or just expect you to pay several months worth of bills as soon as you go back to work, leading to the same level of debt?

Apart from the terrible fact that it will kill a lot more people, I am currently most concerned about how to avoid losing my home if neither myself or my wife can work for more than a month. We have no savings at all.

What about landlords - currently the only way of getting a decent return on capitol. Some of those will be on a mortgage as well. It's a factor that can influence rental prices.

 

[Brigadier]

Whats UK strategy when you dont have capacity. We have less ICU beds per head of population so what you think we will do?

Callous to call it a game but I suppose it comes with the territory.

As to herd immunity which your defending. Looks like Matt Hancock is walking that back today briefing.

Q: What has changed between Friday, when the chief scientific adviser said the government wanted to build up herd immunity, and Sunday, when Matt Hancock said that was not policy?

The spokesman says he does not accept the premise of the question. He says going for herd immunity has not been government policy. He says he made that clear at a briefing on Friday.

So tell me what mental gymnastics you are going to use now?

You post like "herd immunity" is the sole strategy on which we are relying. I for one haven't said that. It is but one of a suite of approaches, which are being / to be rolled out, when they are judged to be of the most benefit.

With regards to ITU care provision, I don't think, in the face of this pandemic, that any level of ITU provision will be enough. Predictions are in the millions, each for a number of weeks, for those needing IT.

It appears that UK is currently going for a "slow, controlled burn", rather than attempt to leave most of the population as, effectively, dry kindling. Which seems to make a degree of sense, seeing as it appears that CV is out of control across Europe now. Unless we completely shut off from the rest of the world, would not most of us then be entirely defenceless against the next wave of the virus?


Personally, I think this is not a situation we can win; it's more a case of the scale of the defeat.

 

[Doug99]

Which is why the Scientists are asking to peer review the Government model.

What harm is there in getting them checked out?

Scientists will always have different views/assumptions. We need to trust our own experts.
If you put 100 car designers in a room and hand them each a list of 100 pre-requisites for a family car, and a blank page for their own assumptions, you will end up with 100 different cars.
If you try and get the same 100 to work together to produce a single car, the arguments and counter arguments will last forever before a decision is agreed.

The Italians, Spanish and French experts are fighting their own battles with no end yet in sight, so to ask them to comment on our own strategy is a bit much.

There are some 'experts' out there who still think the world is flat

 

[ajohn]

Personally, I think this is not a situation we can win; it's more a case of the scale of the defeat.

The thing at the back of my mind is the lack of action in several areas. They tot up and this wont go away. Probable result - more deaths. No one can really tell what steps will actually be taken until they are and the end effects are unknown as well until they happen. We seem to be guided by models of what can happen - even that is dubious especially as there is plenty of hard evidence about what does happen. What they are using can only be from research and that in itself can be a problem. Research is an income just like other jobs and people always want to retain their income.

 

[Notch7]

 

[SirGalahad]

You post like "herd immunity" is the sole strategy on which we are relying. I for one haven't said that. It is but one of a suite of approaches, which are being / to be rolled out, when they are judged to be of the most benefit.

With regards to ITU care provision, I don't think, in the face of this pandemic, that any level of ITU provision will be enough. Predictions are in the millions, each for a number of weeks, for those needing IT.

It appears that UK is currently going for a "slow, controlled burn", rather than attempt to leave most of the population as, effectively, dry kindling. Which seems to make a degree of sense, seeing as it appears that CV is out of control across Europe now. Unless we completely shut off from the rest of the world, would not most of us then be entirely defenceless against the next wave of the virus?


Personally, I think this is not a situation we can win; it's more a case of the scale of the defeat.

The UK isn't going for a slow controlled burn - it is not social distancing which helps achieve that. The only solutiuon which everyone in the world is doing is social distancing - keep interactions to a minium try to go and work if your work allows that. Try to isolate from older people as much as possible.

We do not need to shut off, we need to be more pragmatic in how people work for the next 3 to 6 months. The Government needs to provide a fiscal stimulus or companies will go bankrupt and unemployment will shoot through the roof.

 

[JP_]

What about landlords - currently the only way of getting a decent return on capitol. Some of those will be on a mortgage as well. It's a factor that can influence rental prices.

Well, labour are pushing for landlords to stop rent if their mortgages are going to be stopped, which is fair - otherwise they will get a mortgage break and still have rent coming in!

 

[SirGalahad]

Other countries can close schools because they have the numbers to cover in their health services.

We dont have enough underemployed staff, so closing schools will require exceptions for key staff.

 

[JP_]

We also have some of the worst broadband access in Europe, which will make remote classes impossible for many kids.

 

[SirGalahad]

We also have some of the worst broadband access in Europe, which will make remote classes impossible for many kids.

That dirty socialist Corbyn with his seditious ideas of broadband for all. Makes me sick to my stomach someone should get something for free. /s

Corona has pointed out how the ideological pursuit of reducing the state leaves your ability to respond to crises compromised.

 

[Notch7]

Britain Exclusive: Public Health England document leaked to Channel 4 News shows frontline NHS health workers won’t be tested for #Covid19 even if they have symptoms. They haven’t got the capacity to even do that

 

[ajohn]

Corona has pointed out how the ideological pursuit of reducing the state leaves your ability to respond to crises compromised.

One odd fact is both major party advisers hate the state in it's current form, Corbyn's one is very probably highly intelligent. Cummings ???? Well he thinks he is