Underhand practices?

[akist]

I wanted to power the small annexe from the main house and had the network guys come over for a survey and she said that I could not have 100A because of the existing, old (1980) cable. She instead proposed a wonderful idea of getting a brand new 100A connection which however would cost £5,500 just to my boundary (there is then another 80 metres to the house which I would have to pay for). She also said that relocation to a large distance is not possible because they cannot connect/interrupt the existing underground cable, which I also thought was a bit weird as well.

As the cost of a new line is so great I decided to double check and I called them up and I said "can you please double and triple check that my existing cable cannot carry over 60A?" and she put me on hold for quite a while and then said I can have 100A no probs. So I have now asked for a relocation and am expecting to hear how much they will charge me.

 

[ericmark]

It seems often it down to asking the right question. For example ask for a TN-C-S supply and you are quoted a price to upgrade, ask what supply have I got, they send out some one to see and he upgrades to TN-C-S for free some times.

In the main large firms work on the win some lose some idea, with a standard price for work, what ever it costs, be it a Bosch boiler or supply to house you can often get a standard price for repair or alteration. These often seem to have no bearing on the work actually done.

 

[akist]

OK, but my point was that the lady checked my meter and the cable and fuse below it, and said that this cannot take 100A and that I would need a totally new supply. I have asked for re-verification that this information was incorrect and that I can indeed have 100A.

 

[John D v2.0]

It's not a scam it's just big companies with so many people with different judgement. You've done the right thing but never assume malice when it can be explained by incompetence! I guarantee it was the latter in this case. Chalk it up to experience and luck

 

[akist]

The saga continues. During a random visit to my next door neighbour I asked to see his meter, and lo and behold his is 100A. His house is older than mine, and I wonder why my fuse is only 60A. Maybe over the past 40 years he has changed his and he does not remember (or his parents did). The point though is that he is happy go lucky at 100A and one person at UKPN is telling me that I cannot have 100A. Time for more calls.

 

[EFLImpudence]

and lo and behold his is 100A. His house is older than mine, and I wonder why my fuse is only 60A.

Are you sure?

A sticker (which is just) stating the maximum rating allowed in the cut-out is no indication of the fuse inside.

 

[akist]

Ah thanks for the pointer. I had assumed that the printed ratings on labels would match the underground cable. Here is a photo that the neighbour allowed me to take, what do you think?

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's just the maximum for the cut-out.

Might be 100A fuse, might not be.

 

[akist]

If I am understanding this correctly, this fuse is to protect the circuits downstream, therefore it tells us very little about the capacity of the underground cable, which could be 50A for example, am I right?

 

[JohnW2]

If I am understanding this correctly, this fuse is to protect the circuits downstream, therefore it tells us very little about the capacity of the underground cable, which could be 50A for example, am I right?

It will certainly protect cables downstream of the fuse - but they (other than those to/from the meter) would, in practice, have local protection, anyway.

I think that, in practice, the main reason for existence of the fuses is to protect the cables and network upstream of the fuse from the effects of faults downstream of the fuse. Quite apart from the cables, were it not for cutout fuses, a fault in one installation which took out the substation fuse would also deprive many other installations of electricity.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

If I am understanding this correctly, this fuse is to protect the circuits downstream,

Yes.

therefore it tells us very little about the capacity of the underground cable, which could be 50A for example, am I right?

If you mean the cable to your premises from the main in the street, then sort of.
It's likely to be more than 50A as the suppliers have different rules. Their 16mm², for example, is used for 100A supplies.

 

[dhutch]

Typically fuses are there to protect the cable down stream from them.

However in the case of incoming cables, they often also in effect protect the incoming cable. As said, its quite likely your neighbour has a 60 or 80 A fuse in that 100A rated cutout.


Daniel

 

[JohnD]

The person on the phone won't have looked at the cable, and will have referred to an online summary of documents that may have been inaccurate when they were new, and are now about 40 years old.

The utility companies know that their records are unreliable, the worst ones ever are the "Wayleaves" files, some of which go back a hundred years, and many have been lost.

You can get a better idea by looking at the type and size of the cable where it comes out of the ground inside the house or meter box, but even then, you don't know for sure what it has been jointed to.