Understanding of Part P

[MidsTW]

I am replacing a single socket with 2 doubles in a bedroom I am renovating. I have found out that the wires under the floor actually serve the kitchen and alarm system, the previous socket was spurred off the cable to the alarm. Both the Kitchen and alarm are also on the same circuit as the main bedroom, loft and upstairs hall. This is labelled as 'ground floor socket' RCD 63a fuse in the CU. If I break into this ring and add my 2 New sockets would I be right in saying this is NOT notifable work? As it is an alteration to a circuit not in a special location.

My other option was to make a new ring on an new 63A RCD incorporating the 2 New sockets and the one on the landing to attempt to restore some balance - but I believe this IS notifiable?

Can anyone who is familiar with this confirm or correct me. As an engineer I am always willing to DIY although I know electrics are more of a sensitive subject especially when selling

 

[delmel]

Sounds like someone has been playing with it. Alarm should be on its own circuit.

A spur should not be spurred and feeding other things. The thing most people will be aware of is the diversity factor, meaning that it will be unlikely to be a problem regarding overloading, but you need it to be correct.

sounds like it's already been added and added and ideally could do with it all being sorted and identified.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I am replacing a single socket with 2 doubles in a bedroom I am renovating. I have found out that the wires under the floor actually serve the kitchen and alarm system, the previous socket was spurred off the cable to the alarm.

Well, it is more likely that the alarm is spurred off the socket circuit - are you sure it is not on a lighting circuit?

Both the Kitchen and alarm are also on the same circuit as the main bedroom, loft and upstairs hall. This is labelled as 'ground floor socket' RCD 63a fuse in the CU.

RCDs (RCCBs) are not fuses and usually cover several circuits so turning off an RCD does not mean all the items disconnected are on the same circuit.

If I break into this ring and add my 2 New sockets would I be right in saying this is NOT notifable work? As it is an alteration to a circuit not in a special location.

That is correct but as you say the socket to be altered is already a spur (this may not be the case) you may change it to a double but not add any more.

My other option was to make a new ring

That is likely to be rather difficult.

on an new 63A RCD

It would have to be on an MCB covered by one of the RCDs.

incorporating the 2 New sockets and the one on the landing to attempt to restore some balance - but I believe this IS notifiable?

Yes if a new circuit.

Can anyone who is familiar with this confirm or correct me. As an engineer I am always willing to DIY although I know electrics are more of a sensitive subject especially when selling

Your description has several discrepancies which indicate that you are not totally conversant with what you want to do.

 

[MidsTW]

Thanks EFL. Yes I believe the alarm is spurred off the socket circuit. I have actually removed the single socket in the room as it was fed by a single cable from a junction box which is connected to the cable running to the alarm.

Sorry I meant the 'ground floor sockets fuse' which is on the RCCD side. So they are all on that fuse.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Thanks EFL. Yes I believe the alarm is spurred off the socket circuit. I have actually removed the single socket in the room as it was fed by a single cable from a junction box which is connected to the cable running to the alarm.

Ok. It does seem to be a bit of a botch.
If the alarm is spurred off the socket circuit then there should be nothing else connected to it.

Separate issue:
On a ring circuit - with only one wire in the socket you cannot connect any more without protecting ALL of them with a 13A FCU. (but not off the alarm cable)

 

[MidsTW]

Thanks EFL.

I had removed the cable to that single socket so the alarm spur now has nothing else on it.

I was planning on extending the ring so 2 cables in the new sockets. It would mean replacing the cable to the upstairs hall socket if I want to avoid using junction boxes.

Yes botch is the word. I spent last Saturday afternoon removing old cabling... I have half a bin of the stuff now.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Alarm should be on its own circuit.

No it shouldn't.

The thing most people will be aware of is the diversity factor

How is diversity applied to socket circuits?

 

[MidsTW]

I think delmel meant that some people spur off spurs both knowingly and unknowingly...?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They do.

Alarm should be on its own circuit.

When what he meant was "some people spur off spurs both knowingly and unknowingly".

A spur should not be spurred and feeding other things. The thing most people will be aware of is the diversity factor, meaning that it will be unlikely to be a problem regarding overloading, but you need it to be correct.

When what he meant was "some people spur off spurs both knowingly and unknowingly".

 

[MidsTW]

What are you asking for in your last reply?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm asking you for a credible explanation of why someone who meant "some people spur off spurs both knowingly and unknowingly" would actually write

"Sounds like someone has been playing with it. Alarm should be on its own circuit.

A spur should not be spurred and feeding other things. The thing most people will be aware of is the diversity factor, meaning that it will be unlikely to be a problem regarding overloading, but you need it to be correct.

sounds like it's already been added and added and ideally could do with it all being sorted and identified."

 

[333rocky333]

. This is labelled as 'ground floor socket' RCD 63a fuse in the CU.

You may have an RCD rated at maximum 63 amp, however the fuse rating should be a lot lower than that.

The 63amp rated RCD may do several circuits, hence why it is doing so much.

You should be looking at the individual fuses or mcbs, proberly marked between 5amp and 45amp maximum really

Or as efli has said

 

[MidsTW]

Ban-all-sheds, I was merely suggesting in their absence. For a completely credible answer I suggest you pursue the original author of the statement. Moving on...

Rocky sorry I did correct myself before, all of those location I listed in my original post are on the same fuse which is 43A. On the RCCD side which is as you say is a 63A RCD covering 2 MCB's (both 43A)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ban-all-sheds, I was merely suggesting in their absence. For a completely credible answer I suggest you pursue the original author of the statement. Moving on...

Which is what I did.

It was only after you said that you thought he meant "some people spur off spurs both knowingly and unknowingly" that I asked you to explain how his words could be taken to mean that.

Rocky sorry I did correct myself before, all of those location I listed in my original post are on the same fuse which is 43A. On the RCCD side which is as you say is a 63A RCD covering 2 MCB's (both 43A)

43A?

Your description has several discrepancies which indicate that you are not totally conversant with what you want to do.

 

[MidsTW]

I'll let you finish off discussing diversity then.

32A sorry, had the number 43 in my head for various other reasons.

Your description has several discrepancies which indicate that you are not totally conversant with what you want to do.

Fair comment but I am using a DIY site for advice and when I have made a mistake I have corrected myself.