Unused Rose wiring - making safe before plastering

[robxx]

Hi I have an extra wired ceiling rose in the bedroom I want to remove. There is a main light in the room which is part of the same circuit that I want to keep. I bought a maintenance free junction box to terminate the cables in and push up into the ceiling void and fill the hole. The hole for the extra ceiling rose is only small, much smaller than the Ashley junction box I have got to use. So i'll have to make the how bigger to fit the junction box into the ceiling, which seems mad because the end result is to fill the hole in.

I was wondering if it was possible to use Wago connectors at the end of each wire and just push them through the hole into the ceiling because they will fit through the original hole and not use the junction box at all?

Or is the best way to make the hole bigger and use a junction box?

Cheers

Untitled

• robxx
• 10 Feb 2015
• 1

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I was wondering if it was possible to use Wago connectors at the end of each wire and just push them through the hole into the ceiling because they will fit through the original hole and not use the junction box at all?

No, they have to be in an enclosure.

Or is the best way to make the hole bigger and use a junction box?

Can you get at it from above?

 

[robxx]

Thanks for your reply. Right ok. I thought it would probably need to be in an enclosure. So would that be the standard procedure - make the hole large enough to get a junction box through first?

Would you recommend the Ashley maintenance free junction box or that I get a Wago one and use the connectors with it?

No I can't get to it from above, there is a flat above me with no access.

 

[sparkwright]

I would use the Ashley/Hager one. 20 amp 4 terminal.

 

[Aragorn84]

If the cables are accessible from the other rose, you might be able to disconnect it there and pull it out?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have a problem with the principle of the Wago solution (assuming they are actually making boxes marked MF now). Firstly, the box is not a Wago product, so immediately you've got the situation of the user having to assemble it using components from two manufacturers.

Secondly, it requires the right connectors to be used in the right way, or it doesn't comply as a maintenance free JB. I'm sure it's not rocket science to get it right, but I can guarantee you that one day in the future someone will open up a Wagobox which is marked as MF and find choc-block, or wirenuts, or twist'n'tape inside, so I think the whole product goes against the spirit of the regulations as it facilitates a deceptive contravention of the letter.

The Ashley J804 is not compromised so.

 

[stillp]

Firstly, the box is not a Wago product, so immediately you've got the situation of the user having to assemble it using components from two manufacturers.

Secondly, it requires the right connectors to be used in the right way, or it doesn't comply as a maintenance free JB. I'm sure it's not rocket science to get it right, but I can guarantee you that one day in the future someone will open up a Wagobox which is marked as MF and find choc-block, or wirenuts, or twist'n'tape inside, so I think the whole product goes against the spirit of the regulations as it facilitates a deceptive contravention of the letter.

There is "a very close association" between Wago and Wagobox. Wago are fully aware.
Your second statement might well be the reason why the Wagoboxes aren't marked as MF. However, couldn't you make a similar statement about almost any product that could be misused in contravention of the maker's instructions?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is "a very close association" between Wago and Wagobox. Wago are fully aware.

Yes I know, and I wasn't suggesting anything untoward, just that you start out slightly in the back foot when you have to rely on people using the right selection of bits from different makers, and using them in the right way.

Your second statement might well be the reason why the Wagoboxes aren't marked as MF.

Are they still not? They've been promising that for years.

If they aren't then they do not meet the requirements for MF junction boxes, no matter how they perform.

However, couldn't you make a similar statement about almost any product that could be misused in contravention of the maker's instructions?

Possibly/probably/sometimes - it just seems to me that selling a box with an MF logo on it which could so easily be misused is not good.

 

[stillp]

Didn't I see a photo on here (or perhaps it was another forum) of a standard JB in which someone had added some extra joints using tape?
There are no limits to the apparently stupid things that people will do.
You might have hit on the reason for the Wagoboxes not being marked (at least the ones I saw in November weren't). The manufacturer of the box and the terminals are as you say two different companies, so unless Wagobox start to sell a kit of parts including their box and Wago's terminals, they don't have a product that is a MF JB. If they did supply a kit of parts, they would lose their advantage of versatility.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They could easily still sell the kit of parts alongside the non-kit, non-MF marked items if they wanted.

But the versatility is what lies at the root of my concern - they cannot guarantee that a box they sell with MF markings will actually be used in an MF way. Even if they do sell complete kits people can (and will) mix'n'match, or do without any Wago connectors at all.

 

[stillp]

Just like other boxes then, including the Ashley.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That would require more work to misuse. You'd have to actively pull out the connectors in there as opposed to simply not bothering to correctly put the right ones in.

But you're right in that anything can be misused if someone puts their mind to it.