Unusual Light Switch Challenge

[voltarei]

Hey everyone.
I'm trying to find a solution to a light switch issue I have encountered in my house of weird wiring!

I currently have a bedroom light switch which has two switches.
1 switch controls the bedroom light independently.
1 switch is a 2-way switch that controls a downstairs outside light (don't even ask!), with the other 2-way switch being downstairs.

When the switch in the bedroom that controls the outside light is in the "on" position, the outside light can be turned "on" and "off" using the switch downstairs.
When the switch in the bedroom that controls the outside light is in the "off" position, the switch downstairs will not operate the light.

I am trying to disconnect the outside light from the bedroom switch, and leave a 1 gang switch in the bedroom, but as the switch in the bedroom which controls the outside light needs to be in the "on" position, I'm not sure if I can transfer the wires from the switch into blocks that can be hidden behind the new 1 gang switch, but still be "on" to work the outside light?

I attach a picture of the current configuration, but as it's not that clear, this explanation may help.
The picture was taken standing in front of the switch and tilting the top towards me, so the top edge is at the front of the picture

The switch on the right operates the bedroom light perfectly.
This has a red wire in the top right hand side connector, and 2 red wires in the bottom left hand side connector.

The switch to the left operates the downstairs light, and needs to be "on" for the lights to work using the other switch located downstairs.
This currently has a red wire in the bottom right hand connector, a black wire in the bottom left hand connector, and a red wire in the top right hand connector.
It is this switch that I want to connect to blocks and "hide" behind a single switch, but make sure the downstairs switch still operates the outside light.

Apologies for my lack of technical knowledge, and poor descriptions, but any advice on how to make the change would be very welcommed.

Kind regards
Phil

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• voltarei
• 10 Apr 2014
• 1

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• voltarei
• 10 Apr 2014
• 1

 

[EFLImpudence]

This currently has a red wire in the bottom right hand connector, a black wire in the bottom left hand connector, and a red wire in the top right hand connector.

Try connecting together the two wires which are in the bottom connectors
and put the other in a separate connector.

There are different ways of wiring the lights so it may not work.

Let us know.

It could be a loose wire in the other switch downstairs which is preventing it working as it should.

A picture of the other switch will help.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It is possible that the installer fitted the light and switch to operate that way.
If you are removing the outside light completely, you will need to find the permanent live at the switch for this light, that can then be simply disconnected and placed in a terminal block/connector. This will then make the rest of the cabling of that part of the circuit dead. The plate can then be changed to a single gang plate and redundant cables can then be terminated together but separate to the permanent live the perm live could well be at the downstairs switch and maybe required for other functional lighting therefore would be terminated appropriately and the remainder of the cables from the outside light within the downstairs gang(outside light) would be again terminated into a connector.
You will require some test equipment to confirm and prove what you are doing is identified correctly and terminated safely. Two pole/probe continuity and voltage meters required.

 

[AndyPRK]

Interesting.

I don't think the OP wants to remove the outside light.

It does look like its meant to work as a proper 2 way.

I assume so you can turn the light on and nose out the upstairs window

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The OP states they want to disconnect the outside light and change two gang to single gang plate in bedroom.
It could be that they still want the outside light to function by the downstairs switch though, now reading properly?
So if that is the case they still require to find out where the perm live comes from, maybe just needs to disconnect the strappers from the downstairs switch and terminate them safely.

 

[voltarei]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the comments so far.

To clarify (and this may take a while so bear with me), I am trying to stop the outside light being operated by the switch in the bedroom, and leave that as just a bedroom light switch.
The outside light will still be operated by the switch downstairs.


I have further info which may or may not help:

The upstairs switch has 2 terminals, both with 2 connector holes at the top, and 2 at the bottom (as per the images I posted previously).
If we assume that you are looking at the switch whilst it is in situ, and have pulled the top of the switch away from the wall to look into it, this will give you the following:
Right hand side terminal = bedroom light
Left hand side terminal - downstairs light

I have now worked out that there are 4 twin and earth cables and 1 single cable attached to the switch in the following sequence.

Cable 1 (T&E coming down the wall)
Earth - earth terminal
Red - top left of bedroom light terminal (with cable 3 red)
Black - connector block with other black cables

Cable 2 (T&E coming down the wall)
Earth - earth terminal
Red - bottom right of bedroom light terminal
Black - connector block with other black cables

Cable 3 (T&E coming up the wall)
Earth - earth terminal
Red - top left of bedroom light terminal (with cable 1 red)
Black - connector block with other black cables

Cable 4 (T&E coming up the wall)
Earth - earth terminal
Red - top right of downstairs light terminal
Black - top left of downstairs light terminal

Cable 5 (Single grey cable coming up the wall)
Grey - bottom right of downstairs light terminal


Phew!


I have taken a picture of the downstairs switch, which is also a 2-gang switch, that operates the outside light from the right hand switch, and an internal 1-way light from the left hand switch.

The wiring for this 2-gang switch is just 2 separate twin and earth cables coming down the wall.

Cable 1:
Earth - earth terminal
Brown - L1 of the internal light terminal
Blue - L of the internal light terminal

Cable 2:
Earth - earth terminal
Brown - L1 of the outside light terminal
Blue - L of the outside light terminal

Picture here:

Untitled

• voltarei
• 10 Apr 2014
• 1

Does this make things any clearer?
And do you think there's a way to achieve what I want to?

Many thanks again
Phil

 

[AndyPRK]

well it certainly explains why the 2 way switching doesn't work !

A little surprised to find you have different colours downstairs than upstairs.

Get yourself a connection terminal.

Upstairs on the outside light switch, put the wires from the common hole in the terminal, and then opposite put one wires from L1 & L2 into the terminal.

Check outside light works. That will do the job simply.

Then replace 2 gang with 1 gang

 

[voltarei]

Thanks for the reply (I assume it's Andy).

When you say put the WIRES from the common HOLE on the outside light switch, do you mean the 2 red wires that are in the same hole (as these are on the bedroom light switch), or the black and red wires that are in separate holes on the outside light switch side?

Cheers
Phil

 

[AndyPRK]

Sorry I didn't word that well.

Working On the outside light switch only

Connect the individual red with grey sleeve to the top red and black wires
So that all 3 wires on the outside light are connected together.

 

[voltarei]

That's done the trick - thank you

 

[voltarei]

Hi Andy,
Hope you don't mind me addressing this post to you.

Now you've helped me sort the light switch, I could do with some additional help, as I've purchased a Westinghouse light/fan to be installed in the bedroom in question, and I'm having an issue.

I also noticed in another thread on here, that you said you had a Westinghouse fan, so thought you may know the answer.

The fan comes with the wiring already set up into connectors, so you can just click the fan unit into the connectors you have wired from the ceiling cables.
The cables that are on the fan unit are as follows:
1 Neutral.
2 Live (I assume 1 to the fan, and 1 to the light) in the same connector.
2 Earth (1 to the fan pole, and 1 to the ceiling box) in the same connector.

This means that there are 3 connector points that I can use to attach my wires to:
1 x Live
1 x Neutral
1 x Earth


The cables coming from my ceiling are:
1 x Earth
1 x Black (I assume neutral)
2 x Red (I assume live)

The fan I have taken off, had a connector for each of these, labelled:
Earth
N
L
L/K

I'm assuming that the old fan had 2 live wires going to it, because the fan was controlled only by the pull cord on the unit, so needed constant power, but the light was controlled by the light switch, and a pull cord on the unit.

I'm rambling now, sorry...

The issue I have is that I wired up the Westinghouse light/fan, by putting the Earth cable into the Earth connector, the black cable into the Neutral connector, and the 2 red cables into the Live connector.
Everything works, but the light is constantly on, until I use the pull cord to turn it off.

How do I change the wiring so that the light switch will turn the light off, but leave the fan on?

Extra info:
I tested the red wires coming from the ceiling, and 1 is on the light circuit, but the other is on the mains circuit.

Any help appreciated.
The fan model number is 78764
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EN78764.html

Cheers
Phil[/url]

 

[AndyPRK]

I guess you need to connect the fan to the other red wire from the ceiling.

Does the new fan have a remote control?

 

[voltarei]

No remote control, I didn't buy one, as I wanted to just use the light switch.

After I posted I tried to connect the light circuit red wire only to the unit, and this still made the light stay on, and the switch doesn't control it.

I haven't yet tried just the mains circuit wire on it;s own, but I can't imagine that will work.

Any suggestions?

I assume these lights can be worked via a switch in their current configuration?
Might I have to remove the 2 wires they have coupled together, and attach the mains red wire to the fan wire, and the light circuit red wire to the light wire?

 

[AndyPRK]

Joining the two wires from the ceiliing is a bad idea and will cause the light to stay on.

It sounds like you have the two wires mixed up.


Yes your last suggestion sounds good.