US gun campaigner shot

[fender]

You really are an irritating patronising plonker sometimes.

Not quite right; he's ALWAYS irritating.

Have you ever noticed that when he's put on the spot, he takes ages to reply?
Probably because he has to google around and think about things for an age, which stems back to the fact he just can't be wrong. Even if it means clutching at straws...

He's not capable of off the cuff comments or putting forward his own thoughts - needs to have a quick google first!!

 

[LastMagicBean]

He's wounded, he'll be back.

 

[fender]

He's wounded, he'll be back.

Shame..

 

[Davie Jones]

I think that I've found a better song for Himaginn than Paranoimia...

 

[fender]

It'a all a Redherring I tell ya!

 

[PBC_1966]

Have you ever noticed that when he's put on the spot, he takes ages to reply?

And then sometimes comes back with irrelevant references and comments which suggest he doesn't really understand the topic at hand - Like the VAT debate in which he didn't even get the basic way it works of VAT being paid and reclaimed along the chain.

 

[fender]

Have you ever noticed that when he's put on the spot, he takes ages to reply?

And then sometimes comes back with irrelevant references and comments which suggest he doesn't really understand the topic at hand - Like the VAT debate in which he didn't even get the basic way it works of VAT being paid and reclaimed along the chain.

I think everyone's noticed...........

 

[HawkEye244]

...You would see the weapon of choice change to a knife if you banned guns...

...and see the homicide rate drop dramatically.

You don't think that is worthwhile?

Woah ok don't bother addressing my post then just use an ad hominem. See link below....

''
2,034 violent crimes
per 100,000 people in UK''

''In the decade following the Labor party's election and banning of handguns in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77% to 1.2 million in '07- or more than 2 attacks every minute!''


http://americangunfacts.com/#sources

Say what you like about this, statisics speak louder. Gun free zones have the highest murder rates

Did we ever see any evidence or explanation to support this strange claim?

Yes, start with this http://americangunfacts.com/ and you now link me to evidence showing gun free zones have lower murder rates, because this is what you are claiming.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...73/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

Analysis from which the telegraph article is based from ''European Commission''

 

[PBC_1966]

I've come to the conclusion that he's the pro-EU type who just thinks that the U.K. should be in the EU as a matter of some sort of ideological principle (the building of a federal European superstate and all that), and employs all the usual tricks of the members of that group: dismissing as "irrelevant" anything which can't be countered, trying to twist things around to make it sound as though but for membership of the EU Britain would be worse off, scaremongering at every opoortunity about how the United Kingdom will crumble and fall to pieces if it leaves, etc.

 

[JohnD]

Yes, start with this http://americangunfacts.com/

I see your pro-gun campaigning source says "Nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not in general. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate 3x that of the 9 European nations with the highest gun ownership rate!"

I can't see his source data, can you?
Where does the UK fit on his scale?

What is the gun ownership and the murder rate in the US?

 

[Brigadier]

He's wounded, he'll be back.

....and still be wrong.

 

[JohnD]

I see you've now added some Telegraph link to your post. Is that about gun crime and murder, or are you changing the subject?

 

[HawkEye244]

Yes, start with this http://americangunfacts.com/

I see your pro-gun campaigning source says "Nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not in general. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate 3x that of the 9 European nations with the highest gun ownership rate!"

I can't see his source data, can you?
Where does the UK fit on his scale?

What is the gun ownership and the murder rate in the US?

The sources from that website are listed at the bottom, and within those links are where you can find the hard data from which the claims are based. There is no question that amerciangunfacts.com is a pro-gun source, as many sources you will find on the internet, it's an info war, what do you expect?

From the telegraph article : ''The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission's database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police.''

Right here : http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Crime_statistics#Homicide

This specific source data does not make a comparison between EU and non-EU nations, so all that is required is to find the crime statistics for the US and draw a comparison from that.

Furthermore, you feel free to include source data backing up your aspersions supporting your ''belief'' that gun free zones are statistically safer than their counterparts.

 

[JohnD]

I see your Telegraph article is a cut-and-paste story from 2009.

Presumably you are unaware that

"Specifically, the UK has stricter definitions: things that in USA would not be counted as "violent crime" are counted in the UK statistics.
There are lots of those, hence the apparent (misleadingly so) crime rate.

Once you correct for that and compare like with like UK has significantly less violent crime.

While it becomes clear that certain types of offences are marginally higher in the UK than in the US (robbery and knife crime being more likely in the UK by an order of 1.1x and 1.27x respectively) a number of other, more serious offenses, are both marginally and substantially higher in the US.

Rape of a female is 1.02x more likely in the US, while theft of a vehicle is 1.29x more likely.
More disturbingly, burglary is significantly higher at 1.52x more likely to occur in the US. "

You may feel strong enough to read some of the rebuttals to your misleading link, which has been much discredited, though the story is still circulated by pro-gun campaigners. For example:

https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/

http://blog.skepticallibertarian.co...e-uk-really-5-times-more-violent-than-the-us/

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rich...the-uk-compared-to-the-usa/10151227661611755/

https://www.quora.com/Does-the-Unit...rate-four-times-higher-than-the-United-States

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-a-more-violent-country-than-the-UK

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-more-violence-yet-fewer-deaths-than-in-u-s-

 

[JohnD]

Yes, start with this http://americangunfacts.com/

I see your pro-gun campaigning source says "Nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not in general. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate 3x that of the 9 European nations with the highest gun ownership rate!"

I can't see his source data, can you?
Where does the UK fit on his scale?

What is the gun ownership and the murder rate in the US?

No, I've had a look at the link you gave me, but I can't see it.

I can see the European nations with their murder rate on here
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Homicides,_average_per_year,_2007–09_and_2010–12_(per_100_000_inhabitants)_YB14.png
but where are the gun ownership figures tabulated with the murder rates that your pro-gun source claims?

Would you agree that the murder rate in gun-rich US is three times as high as in gun-poor UK?

And that the US burglary rate is 50% higher, despite the (alleged) deterrent effect of householders having guns?