Utilise an existing 10mm cable for 3amp towl rail.

Not exactly common are they.

And expensive when any other value would do!
Well for someone who used to use MCB's down to ½A on a daily basis they seemed pretty common to me :D
But yes I do understand that the average wholesaler (or other suplier) will go "Huh?"
 
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Regardless of the nonsense posted BS1363 clearly stipulates 3 * 2.5mm^2 conductors maximum or 2 * 4mm^2 conductors. 10mm^2 conductors are unsuitable for direct connection to a socket-outlet.
 
clearly stipulates 3 * 2.5mm^2 conductors maximum

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That's not a maximum upper limit at all.
 
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Regardless of the nonsense posted BS1363 clearly stipulates 3 * 2.5mm^2 conductors maximum or 2 * 4mm^2 conductors.
Are you sure about that (I'll check when I get a chance)? As I've said, MK ones (and probably others) are certainly 'rated' for 3 x 4mm² or 2 x 6mm² - are you suggesting that they are 'non-complaint' In any event, and for fairly obvious reasons, these Standards usually state a minimum requirement, not a maximum - and it would be very odd if a product were said to be non-compliant/conformant with a Standard because its design/manufacture was such that it exceeded the minimum requirements of the relevant Standard.
10mm^2 conductors are unsuitable for direct connection to a socket-outlet.
I would personally have said that a single 10mm² conductor was actually better/'safer' (more likely to result in a 'good connection') than 3 x 4mm² (or 2 x 6mm²) - so would not have described the former as 'unsuitable'!

Kind Regards, John
 
a maximum
It definitely does not say the word maximum, so you must be thinking that the list is exhaustive.
Therefore, do you think you cannot use 1.5mm² cable, 6mm², or even imperial cable, for a socket outlet?
 
The maximum they must permit is as stated, ergo you cannot design to use above that as it may be unsuitable. It requires that they allow 3 * 2.5mm^2 or 2 * 4mm^2 so this is the maximum it requires. It does not require 4 * 2.5mm^2 or 3 * 4mm^2 (or 2 * 6mm^2 or 10mm^2 or 35mm^2 conductors) so it is wrong and improper to advise such misuse.
 
Risteard seems to be making a great job of mangling the English language. I'm not even sure why he bothers to post in this UK forum as he clearly believes he lives somewhere else.
 
The maximum they must permit is as stated, ergo you cannot design to use above that as it may be unsuitable. It requires that they allow 3 * 2.5mm^2 or 2 * 4mm^2 so this is the maximum it requires. It does not require 4 * 2.5mm^2 or 3 * 4mm^2 (or 2 * 6mm^2 or 10mm^2 or 35mm^2 conductors) so it is wrong and improper to advise such misuse.

English isn't your forté clearly.

I believe you are completely misreading or missunderstanding the wording of the reg.
Your interpretation of: 'so this is the maximum it requires' is indeed correct but in in no way does that mean the maximum permissable or 'limited to' which you seem to be stating.
'shall permit' means that will be possible, in other words 'the terminals will accept 3*2.5mm² or 2*4mm²' the fact that they may accept much more is irrelevant as long as they will securely terminate a single wire.

I've fairly regularly used 10mm² cable in 13A sockets for temporary work (and eve been able to use 16mm² tri rated) and this is no more of a breach of regs than a ring final.
 
They must permit a maximum of that. So it is correct - English isn't your forté clearly.
I think it's your understanding of English which is lacking ...

The statement, in English, that "... the terminals shall permit the connection, without special preparation, of one, two or three 2.5mm² solid or stranded or of one or two 4mm² stranded conductors" does not in any way mean that the terminals are not allowed to accommodate more and/or larger conductors than mentioned - the wording of the English clearly indicates a minimum requirement.

Kind Regards, John
Edit:L typed too slowly again!
 
I think it's your understanding of English which is lacking ...

The statement, in English, that "... the terminals shall permit the connection, without special preparation, of one, two or three 2.5mm² solid or stranded or of one or two 4mm² stranded conductors" does not in any way mean that the terminals are not allowed to accommodate more and/or larger conductors than mentioned - the wording of the English clearly indicates a minimum requirement.

Kind Regards, John
Edit:L typed too slowly again!
I didn't suggest that they weren't allowed to accommodate greater so again it is you who is underperforming at the English language. The point remains that you shouldn't be encouraging designs outside the requirements of the relevant product standard as this could easily result in an unsafe installation.
 
I didn't suggest that they weren't allowed to accommodate greater so again it is you who is underperforming at the English language.
If you didn't mean to 'suggest' that, then what exactly did you mean by ...
The maximum they must permit is as stated, ergo you cannot design to use above that as it may be unsuitable. ...
??

The Standard is talking about minimum requirements for products in general, but manufacturers are free to design and produce products which exceed those minimum requirements. You've already cited one example - BS1363 requires that the terminals can easily accommodate ('at least') 2 x 4mm² conductors, but MK (and others) produce sockets with terminals designed, and 'rated' in their specification, to accommodate 3 x 4mm² ones. Are you saying that 'one cannot' use an MK socket with its 'rated' conductors terminated in it?

Kind Regards, John
 
They must permit a maximum of that. So it is correct - English isn't your forté clearly.
The maximum they must permit is as stated, ergo you cannot design to use above that as it may be unsuitable. It requires that they allow 3 * 2.5mm^2 or 2 * 4mm^2 so this is the maximum it requires. It does not require 4 * 2.5mm^2 or 3 * 4mm^2 (or 2 * 6mm^2 or 10mm^2 or 35mm^2 conductors) so it is wrong and improper to advise such misuse.

Regardless of the nonsense posted BS1363 clearly stipulates 3 * 2.5mm^2 conductors maximum or 2 * 4mm^2 conductors. 10mm^2 conductors are unsuitable for direct connection to a socket-outlet.

I didn't suggest that they weren't allowed to accommodate greater

Me finx it mae bee u wot don't no wot yor riting

The reg clearly states one, two or three, there is no mention anywhere in there of the word maximum, it is Ristard who keeps adding that word in.
There is enough confusion within the regs already without people trying to rewrite clearly written parts.

Next you''l be trying to tell us we must not use an undersized OCD on a cable or a specific sized cable for an application.
 

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