Vent stack - fetid odour

[northernlights]

I have recently moved into a nightmare house. Many problems.

I wonder if someone can help me understand what I need to do?

The house (single storey) has an old extension to one side (double storey). As far as I can see there is no external soil stack, but a vent "under the stairs" downstairs near what lokks like it could be an inspection chamber.

Upstais there is a bathroom and loo (old). Waste seems to run through a pipe internally to emerge at floor level upstairs over the dining room in the extension and down into the draein. There is no external vent and a ghastly smell in the dining room!

when I moved in there was no smell but the upstairs loo (which I had failed to inspect) was filty with a thick layer of brown limescale. Perhaps it had not been used in years because of some problem.

There is no smell upstairs - but I cannot use my dining room.

A plumber has been and disappeared without trace saying I should extend the downstairs vent outside. I cannot smell anything from this vent - though he suggested that a pressure differential from my washing machine in the utility room could be causing the smell.

I simply do not know what to do. Do I call a builder or a plumber?

What could the problem be and how do I solve it?

Any help or advice, please! I don't understand plumbing and drainage (learning the hard way) but simply cannot live with the smell..

 

[Softus]

I can't quite glean the exact arrangement of your soil system, but, to start off the discussion, I would point out that the soil vent needs to be higher than the highest entry to the system, i.e. above the WC.

Conventionally, and with good reason, the soil stack extends about the gutter level and has an open top with a 'mousetrap' cage on top to stop bird/rodent entry.

To answer your question about engaging a pro, you'd be better off with a plumber, since most builders work only with underground drainage and [most] don't know all the regulations and principles regarding soil and waste pipes.

 

[northernlights]

Many thanks for this!

I really do not seem to have a soil stack outside the building at all. The vent downstairs may be inadequate then.

Because (I suppose) of the eaved windows built into the roof of the upstairs extension, and the position of the windows in the dining room beneath, the soil pipe disappears behind a wall upstairs inside at the back of the house, then leads along the length of the bathroom/bedroom upstairs (and dining room downstairs) before emerging on the outside of the house and into an inspection chamber covered by a concrete slab. There is NO outlet to vent upwards.

I wonder if you could let me know how high above the window the soil stack should extend? Has the previous owner contravened regulations? (I'm a little worried about implicatuions for me as new owner...) The extension must be 15 or even 20 years old. Do I need to contact the Council? Do I need planning permission to take a stack through the roof? We had a survey done, but none of this was mentioned.

<Also worried that the last time I had bad smell problems when a mango tree had grown through the drainage system overseas - and there is an old clematis growing beside the inspection chamber, too).

Many, many thanks again.

I can't quite glean the exact arrangement of your soil system, but, to start off the discussion, I would point out that the soil vent needs to be higher than the highest entry to the system, i.e. above the WC.

Conventionally, and with good reason, the soil stack extends about the gutter level and has an open top with a 'mousetrap' cage on top to stop bird/rodent entry.

To answer your question about engaging a pro, you'd be better off with a plumber, since most builders work only with underground drainage and [most] don't know all the regulations and principles regarding soil and waste pipes.

 

[Softus]

I really do not seem to have a soil stack outside the building at all. The vent downstairs may be inadequate then.

I suspect so - could you describe in detail, or post a photo of, this "vent under the stairs"?

There is NO outlet to vent upwards.

That's not necessarily a disaster, because your system may have a co-dependence on neighbouring properties for venting the positive sewer pressure. This is one of the reasons that the BCO has to be involved in the decision when drainage changes are made.

I wonder if you could let me know how high above the window the soil stack should extend?

Can't remember without looking it up, but I suspect it will be 500mm.

Has the previous owner contravened regulations?

If you have a vent under the stairs, then yes. I'm curious to know if there's an AAV, not that this removes the need for a vent.

Do I need to contact the Council?

Whoa there - don't do that. Let's find out how far outside the regulations you are first!

Do I need planning permission to take a stack through the roof?

Not unless it's a listed building.

We had a survey done, but none of this was mentioned.

If it were me I'd sue the surveyor, but I'm fond of suing people who've taken money from me without doing their job.

Also worried that the last time I had bad smell problems when a mango tree had grown through the drainage system overseas - and there is an old clematis growing beside the inspection chamber, too).

Cut it down then! Or lift the cover first and have a look...

 

[holty]

if i remember. a vent should terminate 900mm above an open window unless its over 3m away.

 

[northernlights]

I really do not seem to have a soil stack outside the building at all. The vent downstairs may be inadequate then.

I suspect so - could you describe in detail, or post a photo of, this "vent under the stairs"?


Thanks again.

Under the stairs there is a cut off white plastic pipe (completely open at the top) It rises to about 1 metre.

Joining it at right angles is a pipe carying waste water from the utility. The join is at about 35 cm.

I had wondered what the cut off pipe was when being shown round the house. I assumed it wasn't in use. I should have asked - it didn't register that this was a soil vent!! That's appalling! No way can I use the dining room before this is fixed.

A plumber previously came and tried to fit a valve on top - but then the washing machine flooded. He suggested venting outside downstairs through the wall - but my husband did not mention the upstairs plumbing... There has been no sign of the plumber since - despite several phone calls.

There is NO outlet to vent upwards.

That's not necessarily a disaster, because your system may have a co-dependence on neighbouring properties for venting the positive sewer pressure. This is one of the reasons that the BCO has to be involved in the decision when drainage changes are made.

There has been a new build next door - only completed in September..> I think we are in the end of a row of houses - there is a public right of way between us and the new build.

I have been running an air purifier with a carbon filter - but it is not enough.

A friend has told me me to tape a Tesco bag over the top for a while before I can get a plumber to see if the smell goes away.... ?

 

[ChrisR]

Happen to have handy:
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADH_2002.pdf

 

[Softus]

Under the stairs there is a cut off white plastic pipe (completely open at the top) It rises to about 1 metre.

Er, just a moment - that sounds like an appliance standpipe.

What diameter is this vertical pipe, and does it have a trap at the bottom?

Joining it at right angles is a pipe carying waste water from the utility. The join is at about 35 cm.

....from the.... ?

I had wondered what the cut off pipe was when being shown round the house. I assumed it wasn't in use. I should have asked - it didn't register that this was a soil vent!

Given that it's white I very much doubt that it's a vent at all.

A plumber previously came and tried to fit a valve on top - but then the washing machine flooded. He suggested venting outside downstairs through the wall - but my husband did not mention the upstairs plumbing.

The plumber should have asked and not relied on being told.

There has been a new build next door

... which is how high?

A friend has told me me to tape a Tesco bag over the top for a while before I can get a plumber to see if the smell goes away.... ?

That's not such a bad idea, but I would use cling film first to reveal whether the gas in the pipe is under positive or negative pressure (the cling film will be convex or concave, respectively).

 

[northernlights]

Brilliant - thanks so much for the link. I will take my time to look at it.
[

quote="Softus";p="738944"]

Under the stairs there is a cut off white plastic pipe (completely open at the top) It rises to about 1 metre.

Er, just a moment - that sounds like an appliance standpipe.

What diameter is this vertical pipe, and does it have a trap at the bottom?

It's about 4cm in diameter. It leads down straight down under the floorboards. I wasn't there but my husband said that the plumber lifted the inspection cover and saw the vertical pipe joined a larger pipe at right angles. It didn't sound to me from what he said and the diagram he has drawn as though there was a trap. So perhaps there should be one?

I know from plans that a drain runs lengthways from the utility under the dining room.

There has been a new build next door

... which is how high?

Apart from the extension - we are basically single storey. Next door is double storey and much higher.

A friend has told me me to tape a Tesco bag over the top for a while before I can get a plumber to see if the smell goes away.... ?

That's not such a bad idea, but I would use cling film first to reveal whether the gas in the pipe is under positive or negative pressure (the cling film will be convex or concave, respectively).

[/quote]

Did this. When water is run down the utility sink, the film balloons! Perhaps I have a blocked drain??

I am still puzzled by the lack of an external soil vent.......

Many thanks for all your help so far. I knew nothing and am rapidly learning.

 

[Softus]

It's about 4cm in diameter. It leads down straight down under the floorboards. I wasn't there but my husband said that the plumber lifted the inspection cover and saw the vertical pipe joined a larger pipe at right angles. It didn't sound to me from what he said and the diagram he has drawn as though there was a trap. So perhaps there should be one?

Well, without one this is clearly going to be a source of what we could politely call an 'odour'.

I know from plans that a drain runs lengthways from the utility under the dining room.

That doesn't sound very good either. Is that a 110mm (4") pipe?

Next door is double storey and much higher.

Hmm. That's not going to help your situation.

When water is run down the utility sink, the film balloons! Perhaps I have a blocked drain?

If the water runs away quickly enough, then you don't.

 

[northernlights]

I know from plans that a drain runs lengthways from the utility under the dining room.

That doesn't sound very good either. Is that a 110mm (4") pipe?

Panic. I hope someone can advise me. I feel this is going from bad to worse.

Just back from work. No trap visible in the vent. Dark and can't see much under the floorboards. I hadn't lifted the cover before but it smells. My husband indicated that this was a BIG pipe.

the nightmare continues. Another plumber came and left today saying it could be something or nothing. Tried to call him back as requested but only get a recorded message.

Has someone cut a drainage pipe and vent into - oh no - please let it not be - a majot pipe carrying waste......??

If so - what on earth do I do?

Please help!

 

[Softus]

Firstly, don't panic. There's no need for that.

Secondly, put a plastic bag over the open end of the vertical pipe, and use rubber bands to seal it place. This should stop the smells.

Thirdly, draw a simple line diagram (using MS Word draw, or MS Paint, for example) of the layout of all the waste and soil pipes, and post the diagram here. It doesn't have to be to scale, or pretty, just topologically correct.

 

[northernlights]

Firstly, don't panic. There's no need for that.

Secondly, put a plastic bag over the open end of the vertical pipe, and use rubber bands to seal it place. This should stop the smells.

Thirdly, draw a simple line diagram (using MS Word draw, or MS Paint, for example) of the layout of all the waste and soil pipes, and post the diagram here. It doesn't have to be to scale, or pretty, just topologically correct.

Have scanned the plans (approved 1989) but have no web space and can't attach an image!

So - another way - here goes (drainage only) * is inspection chamber/
= is drain/ : is wall/ V is vent/ W is washing machine

from g floor bath
lounge kitchen : ll
: stairs: : ll* garden
-------------------- :--------:---------------------- : ll ---------------------:
: === sink === :*= : ========================= :
*: V :
passage : dining room :


Quite difficult to do. Will see if I can send an attachment.

The smaell is strongest in the dining room (two drains join?). It is also smelly by the pipe and vent under the stairs.

Others - upstairs loo has no vent? Drain joins from upstairs at the junction of utility pipe and pipe from downstairs bathroom.

We are built on cliffs sloping down from from to back. Neighbour is new build - prestigious build on top of site of an old croft. Much higher than us.

Plans say manhole removed from former bathroom at the place where the vent and inspection cover under the stairs now stand.

Pipe under dining room labelled "encased in concrete".

Gurgling noise from most drains and loos as though there is a drop down. Will see if I can get plans up through Supsect sewers run behind on lower ground??

Will see if I can get plans up via moderator.

Many thanks for help!

 

[northernlights]

Firstly, don't panic. There's no need for that.

Formatting has changed! Will try and get the image up through the forum moderator ..

 

[Softus]

Have scanned the plans (approved 1989) but have no web space and can't attach an image!

Try following these instructions: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=99672

So - another way - here goes (drainage only)

Did you mean like this?

[code:1]

* is inspection chamber
= is drain
: is wall
V is vent
W is washing machine

from g floor bath
: ll
lounge kitchen : ll
: stairs : : ll* garden
--------------------:---------:---------------------- : ll ---------------------:
: === sink === :*= : ========================= :
*: V :
passage : dining room :

[/code:1]