very high gas bill

[Corgigrouch]

Eighty KW of boilers and £1800 a month for heating only which is nearly £22K

He He He.. Got to be a firm of Solicitors.

 

[WDIK]

yeah i know it doesnt add up but its a typical commercial neglect.
anyone servicing this should have condemed it years ago.
why is someone called to look at it from a cost implication only?
companies are supposed to be adopting energy policies.

no data concerning service records, looks like a repair stands as a service...

 

[Balenza]

Corgigrouch wrote

I have a pal who has a huge three floor farm house and offices heated with a 40Kw oil boiler and his oil bill is only £450

I can't believe you said only. Thats enormous IMO.
I know a guy with a property almost 5000sq feet and his monthly oil bill is £130. His boiler is 40kw also (Grant Multipass). And his family is quite large.

All his hot water is supplied from an Albion (coiled version) thermal store.

Of course he has no offices to heat but how much does it cost to heat a few offices these days ?.
I spent several years in the commercial sector trying to keep them cool due mainly to electrical devices like PC's running constantly.

 

[Corgigrouch]

Errrm Yes, the ONLY was in relation to the 1800 quid a month of the OP.. My pals house and office has no temperature or zone control on as yet, just a timer as his heating was a bit of a mad dash panic as the plumber who was doing the job installed most of the underfloor heating and plumbing and legged it, forgetting to supply and fit the boiler, solar, unvented tank or even mark which pipe went where. I managed to find an oil man to fit his boiler and I fitted his Unvented, solar and pipework, finished just before Christmas. The sparky who installed his electrical system is due to return to sort out the controls in a couple of weeks

Unfriendly big guy with lead pipe will catch up with the errant plumber soon

 

[doitall]

Hi again,

Previous bills are between £1600 and £1800 for the last 6 months, that is why it has been passed to me. I dont have the actual bills just the readings and invoice costs.

I have been watching the meter and I timed 60 seconds.

Metric meter
Start reading 413349 0/10
End reading 413349 9/10

The boiler details are
Ideal Concord 170 Series 4
Heat output 48.4Kw / 165000BTU
Heat Input 62.1Kw / 211500BTU


Meter is stationary when the boiler is off.

Assuming that is an metric meter then it is right on the button.

Certainly it would pay dividends to rip it out and I would suggest you replace it with either 2 or 3 smaller boilers connected to an low loss header.

Have a look at the Broag range, brilliant boilers for what you want.

 

[johno12345]

Hello,

Doitall, thanks for working that out for me. I will request the actual bills tomorrow to check.

Now you have all finished laying into me, I will cover a few points.

Whatdoiknow, not a lot it seems. This boiler, as with the other 8 we have are serviced every 6 months and certificates issued. I wouldnt say it is neglected, we polish it daily and bid it good morning . We do have an energy policy in place. When a repair is made, it is serviced as part of that too.

We are not a firm of solicitors, we are a steel engingeering firm specialising in heat treatment. We do have a cinema but only air source heat pumps, not situated in a field but a grotty part of the north.

The £1800 is for this single boiler per month alone.

What is wrong with Keston? Not that we are replacing it, heat pumps are the way forward in this building.

£1800 is easily lost when your total gas consumption for the month is £80-90K

Now we know the meter is corect, I know that there is a billing issue instead.

Thankyou all for your help, it has been appriciated.

Incidentally, why would anyone condemn a safely working boiler? Surely that weakens the position when a gas appliance is condemned on safety grounds?

 

[doitall]

Hello,

Doitall, thanks for working that out for me. I will request the actual bills tomorrow to check.

We are not a firm of solicitors, we are a steel engingeering firm specialising in heat treatment. We do have a cinema but only air source heat pumps, not situated in a field but a grotty part of the north.

The £1800 is for this single boiler per month alone.

What is wrong with Keston? Not that we are replacing it, heat pumps are the way forward in this building.

£1800 is easily lost when your total gas consumption for the month is £80-90K

Now we know the meter is corect, I know that there is a billing issue instead.

Thankyou all for your help, it has been appriciated.

Incidentally, why would anyone condemn a safely working boiler? Surely that weakens the position when a gas appliance is condemned on safety grounds?

I assume you have a few kilns or the like kicking about then

I agree heat pumps are the way forward for must commercial properties, although to get the best you need a very large area for ground source collector loops or 3-4 deep wells/boreholes, you would really not benefit from air source, unless you split it into 3 minimum. Also to get the best out you would need to consider underfloor heating, even though the high output commercial units will knock out 65C.

 

[tonybhoy]

Hello,



Incidentally, why would anyone condemn a safely working boiler? Surely that weakens the position when a gas appliance is condemned on safety grounds?

Yes,but generally you have to find as many safety issues that you can in order to cover yerself.

Not difficult on any boiler never mind one as old as yours

 

[doitall]

I wouldn't have thought there was a billing issue either, if the boiler is running 8 hours a day the target is easy reached.

Would need the total units used and unit cost.

 

[doitall]

Hello,



Incidentally, why would anyone condemn a safely working boiler? Surely that weakens the position when a gas appliance is condemned on safety grounds?

Yes,but generally you have to find as many safety issues that you can in order to cover yerself.

Not difficult on any boiler never mind one as old as yours

These boilers are around 79% so not that bad. I would think the problem lies with the system pipework, Isolation or lack of, and an virtually open building. The heat loss must be astronomical.

 

[tonybhoy]

Hello,



Incidentally, why would anyone condemn a safely working boiler? Surely that weakens the position when a gas appliance is condemned on safety grounds?

Yes,but generally you have to find as many safety issues that you can in order to cover yerself.

Not difficult on any boiler never mind one as old as yours

These boilers are around 79% so not that bad. I would think the problem lies with the system pipework, Isolation or lack of, and an virtually open building. The heat loss must be astronomical.

I've seen a lot of them installed with 22MM pipework right off the boiler tappings.

All that happens is they then continually cycle on the thermostat with very little hot water going away from the boiler.

 

[doitall]

Hello,



Incidentally, why would anyone condemn a safely working boiler? Surely that weakens the position when a gas appliance is condemned on safety grounds?

Yes,but generally you have to find as many safety issues that you can in order to cover yerself.

Not difficult on any boiler never mind one as old as yours

These boilers are around 79% so not that bad. I would think the problem lies with the system pipework, Isolation or lack of, and an virtually open building. The heat loss must be astronomical.

I've seen a lot of them installed with 22MM pipework right off the boiler tappings.

All that happens is they then continually cycle on the thermostat with very little hot water going away from the boiler.

Not one of these beast you haven't The boiler would go straight to overheat and lockout with 22mm pipework.

11/2" minimum if you use a shunt pump and header.

 

[tonybhoy]

Some of the older ones just had a thermocouple with no overheat stat.

 

[doitall]

Some of the older ones just had a thermocouple with no overheat stat.

I would argue that, and I certainly have never seen one, unless the fitter forgot to fit it.

The instructions were quite clear on every model and size, the overheat thermostat, was fitted on the opposite side to the flow.

 

[Corgigrouch]

Eighteen hundred quid is eighteen hundred quid and so I would still rather look at a way of recovering some of the waste heat from your processing...Be you in a field or in the grotty North..Or even in a field in the grotty North