Victorian Servants Bell System- still live

[JIMBOB01]

link to photos...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x68ceomf3fruyby/AAC_qvncQdmeM1VODC0kw510a?dl=0

Hi all,
I have just started to strip the lining paper off the walls to one of our rooms, was once traditionally the dining room. Besides the fireplace beneath the paper was a small hole with two wires protruding. I touched the end of the wires with a tester pen only to find the wires still live.
The reading indicated 12V, I am not sure how accurate the meter is but they are obviously still connected to the mains. I have guessed that the system has a 'drop down' in voltage running to it.
I looked at the box in the kitchen above the door and opened up the front. When applying the same electric probe onto the contacts it only indicates a flash signifying a live contact but there is no reading of voltage.
Next to the kitchen under the stairs is a cupboard where the fuse box etc. is installed.
You can see from the pic that the wiring comes out the top of the box in the kitchen, there is a short run under the stairs and then obviously down into the melaise under the stairs.
My question is,... I assume there is a box that steps down the voltage, what should I be looking for?
I would like to disconnect the circuit from the mains (obviously with everything shut off)
I have a chap coming to skim the walls in the room with the protruding wires, I would like to have this sorted before he starts work.
I am sure that this is a common problem facing anyone who has been faced with original chord wiring in old houses. I was amazed that it was still live, obviously no-one has bothered to disconnect this circuit before now, the Wiring to the rest of the house looks relatively modern in comparison. (plastic shielded)
Advice, what to look for...
I would like to disconnect the circuit before it gets to the Servants Indicator board.
Jim

 

[winston1]

Wow something like that has value. Remove it carefully and sell it on eBay.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It may be disconnected already, and you are seeing an induced voltage. You should get a proper tester, btw.

If there's a transformer somewhere then I expect it will be in a nice mahogany box, possibly with marquetry, curlicues and brass bits for the 3rd under-scullery maid to polish at 4AM.

No, but seriously - the only way you are going to find where the wiring goes, and where it is connected to any source of power, is to physically trace it.

Victoriana is popular - you should find out if your annunciator has value, particularly if it works. Or keep it, if your house has enough remaining features to make it worth restoring.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I agree, a two-probe tester will give you a proper indication. If it is still 12v with a proper tester, turn the breakers off one at a time. Then you'll know which circuit you need to look at.

Mostly stuff like that had a separate MCB/fuse or was on a lighting circuit. Look at the cables on the identified MCB. Got a mystery wire? that may be the transformer feed.

PS, I'll take that old servants indicator board off you. There's no market for them.

 

[StephenOak]

The system is obviously old but it may not be Victorian.

We have this

and our house was built in the the 30s.

 

[JohnW2]

PS, I'll take that old servants indicator board off you. There's no market for them.

Is your middle name Lovejoy?

The Victorians seem to have been keen on servants! I was brought up in a very modest 2½-bedroomed late-Victorian terraced house (in outer London), but even that had a servant call system. As per the OP, it still worked, with an indicator board in the kitchen (which also had a built in 'Triplex cooker' - which Lovejoy would certainly have made an offer for!), until my parents got sick of me playing with it and therefore disabled it! I have a vague recollection that it was battery powered, but I'm not sure. That would make some sense, since it seems that the house had no electricity supply in Victorian times - the remnants of the gas lighting (still 'live', but capped off) were still there in my time.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

The Victorians seem to have been keen on servants!

No. They had slaves.

 

[JohnW2]

No. They had slaves.

I'm not sure that there was an awful lot of difference in those days, was there?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JIMBOB01]

Thanks, yes makes sense a process of elimination in the fuse box...
We love the box in the kitchen and I quite like the idea of rigging it back up one day, but at the moment it is only serving as a fire hazard and potentially a source for electrocuting myself, or worse others. The box will remain, but will have to just be redundant for now.
On the two probe tester,... I do have one I use for the car, that has a 240V option... I have only used it for continuity on the car and use it by placing the black to earth and the red to a live feed,... what to do with these wires? they are both live, I do not have a ground to put the ground clip or probe onto... or should I be placing the probe onto each wire and have it on what setting?

 

[Taylortwocities]

they are both live

If they come from a transformer they will be 'floating '. I.e. You need to read voltage between them. They will not have any reference to your coloquial "ground".
That's why you need a two probe test device that will read lower voltages.
The reading you see may we'll be induced voltage from other circuits and may not be live at all.
Those magic wand things sometimes tell you lies.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have a vague recollection that it was battery powered, but I'm not sure. That would make some sense, since it seems that the house had no electricity supply in Victorian times

I believe that they often were, and for that reason, although later conversion to using transformers cannot be ruled out. They are a lot like doorbells.

Also, they could be installed where, or near where, the original set of bells had been, and re-use the existing mechanical connections to work switches

 

[EFLImpudence]

If they come from a transformer they will be 'floating '. I.e. You need to read voltage between them. They will not have any reference to your coloquial "ground".
That's why you need a two probe test device that will read lower voltages.

I think Jimbob has done that - i.e. done it properly. It appears he has a multimeter.

 

[ericmark]

Found it in a farm house in Tywyn mid Wales, there were a batteries in the cellar running it all. In fact two sets of batteries one for the call buttons and other for the lights, charged from a generator housed across the access road, but these systems have been upgraded many times, and so near impossible to say how yours would have been powered. I would assume you want it to work, you would not want to remove something like that.

 

[deadshort]

link to photos...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x68ceomf3fruyby/AAC_qvncQdmeM1VODC0kw510a?dl=0

Hi all,
I have just started to strip the lining paper off the walls to one of our rooms, was once traditionally the dining room. Besides the fireplace beneath the paper was a small hole with two wires protruding. I touched the end of the wires with a tester pen only to find the wires still live.
The reading indicated 12V, I am not sure how accurate the meter is but they are obviously still connected to the mains. I have guessed that the system has a 'drop down' in voltage running to it.
I looked at the box in the kitchen above the door and opened up the front. When applying the same electric probe onto the contacts it only indicates a flash signifying a live contact but there is no reading of voltage.
Next to the kitchen under the stairs is a cupboard where the fuse box etc. is installed.
You can see from the pic that the wiring comes out the top of the box in the kitchen, there is a short run under the stairs and then obviously down into the melaise under the stairs.
My question is,... I assume there is a box that steps down the voltage, what should I be looking for?
I would like to disconnect the circuit from the mains (obviously with everything shut off)
I have a chap coming to skim the walls in the room with the protruding wires, I would like to have this sorted before he starts work.
I am sure that this is a common problem facing anyone who has been faced with original chord wiring in old houses. I was amazed that it was still live, obviously no-one has bothered to disconnect this circuit before now, the Wiring to the rest of the house looks relatively modern in comparison. (plastic shielded)
Advice, what to look for...
I would like to disconnect the circuit before it gets to the Servants Indicator board.
Jim

Does the front door bell not work on that system ? The usual wiring is just a loop wire supplying 12v to each room and a switch wire for each 'flag to its respective room. If you connect all 3 wires together in the dining room the bell and flag should work. If you break the loop pair you may loose the power to the front door bell if it still works.




DS

 

[Gerrydelasel]

That is an early 20th century call bell. They work off low voltage. They were still being built into houses when new in the 1930s, even though by then few people had servants. The victorians had servants not slaves; slavery has been illegal in England since 1574 (emancipation of the serfs).